YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

cittanupassana - Dhamma Wheel

cittanupassana

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
User avatar
effort
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:32 am

cittanupassana

Postby effort » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:26 am

in vipassana as i understand there is no direct method of meditating on the mind object, and the way vipassana approaches to mind meditation is during mediation on physical object like body or abdomen when a gross mind state like greed or torpor appears and meditator notes that. so there is no direct method of mind object meditation? or there is and that is calm abiding? i remember that there was a huge topic about calm abiding in in esangha.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: cittanupassana

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:31 am

Greetings effort,

Well there is... and you named it in the title of this subject, cittanupassana!

The method is taught in...

MN 10: Satipatthana Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

and associated commentaries such as...

The Way of Mindfulness (The Satipatthana Sutta and Its Commentary) by Soma Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... wayof.html

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Ben » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:43 am

Hi Effort
My primary object is vedana and sometimes I switch to citta. I remember my teacher saying a couple of years ago during retreat that by observing vedana one was also observing the mind the reason being that all but four classes of cittas co-arise with vedana. For me personally, I find cittanupassana too ephemeral for daily practice and I find I benefit more with something more earthy - hence vedananupassana.
All the best.

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
effort
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:32 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby effort » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:11 am

thanks ben, it is exactly what is in this record:

http://www.dharmaseed.org/teacher/29/ta ... f_mind.mp3

retro, but i didnt heard anytime that a teacher instructing sit and look at your 5 kinds of consciousness, or mental qualities directly ( something like what they do in vedana)

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: cittanupassana

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:39 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
effort
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:32 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby effort » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:33 pm

you know retro, it is really strange for me that in some sects ( other than theravada ) they emphasize on merely sitting and being aware of your current mind, and in theravada there is no instruction at all for this(almost) or if there is i dont know.

bhikkhu khemavamsa has a book about cittanupassana and thats the only one that i saw directly pointing to that, but interestingly he is a theravadian.

i think the first hand experiment for the teachers in theravada comes from ajahn lee or around that time till now( and there is a huge gap into real practice till almost 150-200 years ago), and during this period of time the most influential teachers were mostly focusing on veddana because they didnt had a reliable teachers to teach them directly other aspects of nupassana, so because of this there is not so many different approaches in theravada.

i mean its not fair becuase as long as i observe breath i loss my mind balance, my hearth rate, over breathing and many others problems but i can sit and look to mind( i know this is not like arising and passing away,and mostly like i, self, consciousness) and there must be a way that i( or people who are like me) can use this object to do vipassana.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Ben » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Hi effort
My experience has been that when one is practicing vedananupassana for an extended period in a retreat setting, the mind becomes more sensitive and stable and one's attention can more easily switch to mind states without getting blown away or embroiled in identifying with mental content. The monkey mind is happening all the time, but as one settles into vedananupassana there is less grasping and identifying with the mind states and mental content and more observation. If you can observe the anicca characteristic (or for that matter the dukkha or anatta characteristic) of mental states, then you are practicing vipassana.
It would be worthwhile checking out the section on cittanupassana in the visuddhimagga - if you have a copy.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: cittanupassana

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:44 pm


User avatar
bazzaman
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:49 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby bazzaman » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:39 am

.
Last edited by bazzaman on Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
effort
Posts: 222
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:32 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby effort » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:43 pm


User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Ben » Mon Mar 01, 2010 8:47 pm

Hi effort
So long as one is a putthujana, delusion is present.
But for practical purposes, one can know delusion is present in the mind by observing the dominant hindrance or sankhara that may be manifesting through one or more of the satipatthanas.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: cittanupassana

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:24 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 2928
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Goofaholix » Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:27 pm


User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: cittanupassana

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:59 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
Alexei
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:51 pm
Location: Moscow, Russia

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Alexei » Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:57 pm


rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: cittanupassana

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:22 pm

what is delusion? I have always found this list helpful (vipallasa -perversions)
1) thinking the impermanent is permanent
2) thinking the unsatisfactory is satisfactory
3) thinking the not-self is self
4) thinking the unwholesome is wholesome

you can do both body/breath and mind mindfulness at different times. They will support each other.

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

Thai_Theravada
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:39 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Thai_Theravada » Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:17 am

...
Last edited by Thai_Theravada on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: cittanupassana

Postby PeterB » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:07 pm

To what are mind objects, objects Thai Theravada ?

Thai_Theravada
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:39 am

Re: cittanupassana

Postby Thai_Theravada » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:27 pm

Hi PeterB

If i misunderstood please give me the explanation,
But In Thai, we didn't use the word like "Mind Object"
because the definition of the word "Object" :
"An object is anything that has a fixed shape or form, that you can touch or see"
It totally differ from the qualification of mind.

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: cittanupassana

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:36 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


Return to “General Theravāda Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine