Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Laurens » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:30 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Dont be afraid of the vaccine either.


The point I was making is that Swine Flu has been blown out of proportion by the media - it has died down somewhat in recent months, but a while ago it was all over the news. The might as well have had a pale man, sweating and shaking on our screens repeatedly saying "We're all going to die! We're all going to die!" Its all just sensationalism, probably trying to take our minds off the dire state of the economy for a while.

No one I have encountered has suffered with Swine Flu, and in many cases I have heard about, people just had flu like symptoms and recovered very quickly. No one I know ever had Bird Flu either, or SARS. Whilst I admit it is important to look out for one's own health, its also important not to get swept up in mass hysteria. Many elderly people die from regular flu every year (not to mention all the countless other diseases and ailments!), as do many with weak immune systems etc. It's those people who we need to look out for. The rest of us don't have a huge amount to worry about.

To me it just seems completely like the media have whipped up a frenzy over this. Of course I don't wish Swine Flu upon anyone and I hope all those suffering with it recover swiftly and healthily, and I don't deny that in some cases Swine Flu is a huge risk. However it is not a huge risk to every single person in the whole wide world as it is portrayed to be in the media and I don't think it should be feared to such a high degree.

Personally I would be more weary of getting the vaccine myself (if I were to fear anything in this scenario), not least untill I knew exactly what was in it. After the media creating all this hype they could have anything in those syringes and we would gladly roll up our sleeves... Not wanting to sound like a conspiracist or anything :?
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Nov 30, 2009 5:47 pm

Some Swine Flu facts.
As at 26/11 Swine flu deaths in the UK stand at 245, with more expected if the second wave hits after Christmas. A large proportion of those deaths are not in fact older people , they are young people. Pregnant women seem to be hit particularly hard by the virus witha UK total of 23 otherwise healthy pregnant women dying as a result of the virus.

In addition to the deaths most large hospitals in late October early November were stretched to the limit of their capacity in terms of staff, both nurses and doctors.
Most large hospitals were having to postpone urgent surgery, and their Intensive Care Units were filled to capacity.
There has been a lessening of new cases due in no small part it is assumed because of the vaccination programme. The take up has been very high, particularly among NHS staff who are traditionally reluctant to avail themselves of the seasonal flu jabs.

Even when a particular subject has mild symptoms there is a risk of passing on the virus to more vulnerable people including pregnant women.
So far there are NO reports of major reactions to the vaccine offered in the UK.
All figures taken from the latest (26/11 ) stats from the DHSS.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Laurens » Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:51 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Some Swine Flu facts.
As at 26/11 Swine flu deaths in the UK stand at 245


Which is minimal compared to the amount of people that die of seasonal flu each year:

Every year, around 8,000 people die from seasonal flu-related complications during the winter months in England and Wales.


Source:
http://www.bexleypct.nhs.uk/ngen_public/article.asp?id=26&did=18&aid=1186&st=&oaid=38

245 seems like a lot but when put in perspective it is not that large.

I do not wish to seem cold, as I do sincerely wish that all beings affected come away healthy and unharmed. However I stand by my sentiment that this whole thing has been blown out of proportion by the media.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:01 pm

Laurens I think you might be missing the main thrust of this. The numbers of people dying from seasonal flu reflect what happens to the elderly population with underlying health concerns. What is different about Swine Flu is that a high proprotion of those dying are YOUNG. Being older actually confers a degree of immunity to this particular virus. We had two more deaths of fit young people in the hospital I manage last week. In addition to the deaths a sizeable proportion of younger people contacting the disease are hospitalised and remain ill for several weeks. This represents a huge drain on NHS resources, and is easily preventable.
And this is to say nothing of the projected second wave which we will not see until Jan/Feb. This is not the US. It is in no ones interest to scare people. No one in the NHS stands to make money from this situation. My perception of these events is not as a result of the media, I am seeing it from the inside.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Laurens » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:42 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Laurens I think you might be missing the main thrust of this. The numbers of people dying from seasonal flu reflect what happens to the elderly population with underlying health concerns. What is different about Swine Flu is that a high proprotion of those dying are YOUNG. Being older actually confers a degree of immunity to this particular virus. We had two more deaths of fit young people in the hospital I manage last week. In addition to the deaths a sizeable proportion of younger people contacting the disease are hospitalised and remain ill for several weeks. This represents a huge drain on NHS resources, and is easily preventable.
And this is to say nothing of the projected second wave which we will not see until Jan/Feb. This is not the US. It is in no ones interest to scare people. No one in the NHS stands to make money from this situation. My perception of these events is not as a result of the media, I am seeing it from the inside.


Well as someone who manages a hospital it goes without saying that you will see the worst of things. However from my perspective I have not seen any of this, no one I know or have encountered has had the virus, and the same goes for alot of people I know. I don't deny that it is a problem. Simply that from where I stand it is not half as big as they make it out to be on the news. The news makes it out to be some kind of apocalypic event, which it is not in any way.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:55 pm

It was for the family of the 28 year old woman who died on one of my wards last week.
Clearly if there had been no vaccination programme and a couple of thousand people had died in the UK then the reaction to that would have been huge..There is a direct correlation between the vaccine roll out and the downshift in the number of reported cases. We are seeing it week on week. Of course when it is all over and tens of thousands of people have not developed Swine Flu because other people had the jab some of them will say " see I told you that it was nothing ".... :tongue: c'est la vie ...
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:35 pm

Hello All,

Well, it appears that my wife has come down with the Swine Flu and I can only assume I'm next. The doctor said our 2 y.o. probably already had it and gave it to his mother but who knows. I just keep reflecting on byadahi-dhammomhi byaadhim anatiito and rolling with the punches. Be well. :anjali:
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby BlackBird » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:18 pm

The best thing for these things is to build up a strong immune system, and just like building a muscle it's not gonna get strong unless it gets used. That is why imo prevention of influenza by vaccination is never the best option for humanity.

Lots of people caught swine flu down here in Dunedin this season, it's really not all it's cracked up to be by the media and WHO.


Hope you all get better soon Mike :heart:

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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Khalil Bodhi » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:00 pm

Thanks Jack, and I certainly hope it's as mild as the normal flu. Be well!
To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby catmoon » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:58 am

Sanghamitta wrote: What is different about Swine Flu is that a high proprotion of those dying are YOUNG.
Well, so what? Death is death.


My perception of these events is not as a result of the media, I am seeing it from the inside.


Yes and this is why you probably have a distorted view. Remember you are encountering cases at several hundred or thousand times the frequency of the average person. When people outside the health care system see a mild case here and there, and might have a friend of a friend who was hospitalized, you see dozens of hospitalizations and even deaths.

So whose reality is real?
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:55 am

This isnt a philosophical game. These are real people. Those deaths are/were easily prevenatable by one one quick injection. That is not a matter of interpretation its a matter of fact.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Dan74 » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:01 am

Yes! And not only that but enough people getting the vaccine will stop the flu from becoming an epidemic again.

But again I am not a medical professional, just talking common sense here (I think?).

_/|\_
_/|\_
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:02 am

catmoon wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote: What is different about Swine Flu is that a high proprotion of those dying are YOUNG.
Well, so what? Death is death.


My perception of these events is not as a result of the media, I am seeing it from the inside.


Yes and this is why you probably have a distorted view. Remember you are encountering cases at several hundred or thousand times the frequency of the average person. When people outside the health care system see a mild case here and there, and might have a friend of a friend who was hospitalized, you see dozens of hospitalizations and even deaths.

So whose reality is real?

I find this breath-takingly lacking in compassion. This is not just about the fatalities although any preventable death is appalling , particular of a young parent. In a number of cases this virus, this easily preventable virus, causes great suffering. For every fifteen people who just have a mild flu, one will have a serious illness that will hospitalise them for weeks. They may well have caught that virus from one of the ones that have a mild form. This is a opportunity to put your compassion where your mouth is. Get protected and by so doing protect those who are vulnerable, who for reasons not yet clear, tend to be young active people.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:19 am

Dan74 wrote:Yes! And not only that but enough people getting the vaccine will stop the flu from becoming an epidemic again.

But again I am not a medical professional, just talking common sense here (I think?).

_/|\_

I think you are.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Karunika » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:17 pm

I don't know anyone that has died from being struck by lightening, but that does not mean that I am going to go out in an electrical storm and fly a kite or even stand under a tree.

Here are some good hand washing pointers from the US Center for Disease Control. Proper hand washing is still one of the best preventive measures that one can take - that and not touching your eyes, mouth, nose, etc. Some of our grocery stores in the US have alcohol wipe dispensers so customers can clean the grocery cart handle before using. Also important to wash hands properly and thoroughly, which many people do not do (I learned when working in health care).



When washing hands with soap and water:

* Wet your hands with clean running water and apply soap. Use warm water if it is available.
* Rub hands together to make a lather and scrub all surfaces.
* Continue rubbing hands for 20 seconds. Need a timer? Imagine singing "Happy Birthday" twice through to a friend!
* Rinse hands well under running water
* Dry your hands using a paper towel or air dryer. If possible, use your paper towel to turn off the faucet

When should you wash your hands?

* Before preparing or eating food
* After going to the bathroom
* After changing diapers or cleaning up a child who has gone to the bathroom
* Before and after tending to someone who is sick
* After blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing
* After handling an animal or animal waste
* After handling garbage
* Before and after treating a cut or wound

Remember: If soap and water are not available, use alcohol-based gel to clean hands.

When using an alcohol-based hand sanitizer:

* Apply product to the palm of one hand
* Rub hands together
* Rub the product over all surfaces of hands and fingers until hands are dry.




Grandma and I also wash our hands whenever we come back home from a store.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Annapurna » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:19 pm

Most important,that, for swineflu. Wash hands whenever you come home from a store becuase that is where you get the virus on your hands.

It's also good to frequently drink, to flush viruses down to the stomach, where the acid kills them and you can also take a Q tip and clean nostrils with salt water.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby Annapurna » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:28 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:It was for the family of the 28 year old woman who died on one of my wards last week.
Clearly if there had been no vaccination programme and a couple of thousand people had died in the UK then the reaction to that would have been huge..There is a direct correlation between the vaccine roll out and the downshift in the number of reported cases. We are seeing it week on week. Of course when it is all over and tens of thousands of people have not developed Swine Flu because other people had the jab some of them will say " see I told you that it was nothing ".... :tongue: c'est la vie ...


You know how it is here?

We didn't get the vaccine in time. And many refused to get an untested
vaccine.

A lot of people already had the swineflu and are meanwhile back to work and back in school.

We have no idea how many had it.

The test cost money, (40-60 Euros)and people don't want to spend it.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby catmoon » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:44 am

Sanghamitta wrote:
catmoon wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote: What is different about Swine Flu is that a high proprotion of those dying are YOUNG.
Well, so what? Death is death.


My perception of these events is not as a result of the media, I am seeing it from the inside.


Yes and this is why you probably have a distorted view. Remember you are encountering cases at several hundred or thousand times the frequency of the average person. When people outside the health care system see a mild case here and there, and might have a friend of a friend who was hospitalized, you see dozens of hospitalizations and even deaths.

So whose reality is real?

I find this breath-takingly lacking in compassion. This is not just about the fatalities although any preventable death is appalling , particular of a young parent. In a number of cases this virus, this easily preventable virus, causes great suffering. For every fifteen people who just have a mild flu, one will have a serious illness that will hospitalise them for weeks. They may well have caught that virus from one of the ones that have a mild form. This is a opportunity to put your compassion where your mouth is. Get protected and by so doing protect those who are vulnerable, who for reasons not yet clear, tend to be young active people.


"Preventable death"? When did they invent that? Do you think you can prevent death? It's going to happen sooner or later. And, in the overall picture, swine flu isn't even a bump in the road. You'd have a hard time demonstrating that there is any significant difference between this flu season and any other. For instance, if I remember correctly, each flu season some 8000 people die in Canada. So far we have lost 254 to swine flu and it is petering out. In other words, we are facing a pretty normal flu season.

When I said "death is death" I meant that no life is more important than another, though many seem to think so.
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby BlackBird » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:44 am

Well to be a bit tongue in cheek I think the life of a Buddha or Arahant is a lot more important than the lives of many humans on Earth today :stirthepot:
"And so, because this Teaching is so different from what Westerners are accustomed to, they will try to adapt the Teaching to their own framework. What they need to learn to do is not to adapt the Teaching to their own point of view but to adapt their own point of view to the Teaching. This is called saddhá, or faith, and it means giving oneself to the Teaching even if the Teaching is contrary to one’s own preconceived notions of the way things are."- Ven Bodhesako

Nanavira Thera's teachings - An existential approach to the Dhamma | Ven. Bodhesako's essay on anicca
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Re: Swine Flu prevention - some simple measures

Postby catmoon » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:26 am

BlackBird wrote:Well to be a bit tongue in cheek I think the life of a Buddha or Arahant is a lot more important than the lives of many humans on Earth today :stirthepot:


It may be true, but we are in no position to make the call, right?
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