tiltbillings wrote:Paññāsikhara wrote:Their basic argument is that "anatta" denies atta in the five aggregates, but not elsewhere.
I suggest that they investigate the various statements in the suttas that indicate that it is a denial of not only "the aggregates = atta", but also that "aggregates are in atta", "atta is in aggregates", or that "outside of the aggregates there is a soul". These four forms, for each of the five aggregates, is known as the "twenty peaked mountain of identify-view". The Buddha rejected them all.
And yes, it does sound like some certain 'net trolls out there, one or two specific ones, in fact.
It would be really very nice of you if you would in the very least provide a few textual citations.
<<reaches over to dissertation, search "twenty" ... flip ... flip ... copy, paste >>
viṃśatiśikhara-samudgataḥ satkāyadṛṣṭi-śailaḥ
<<copy past>>
For example, at 22:117 iii 164: “
… sappurisadhamme avinīto rūpaṃ attato samanupassati, rūpavantaṃ vā attānaṃ; attani vā rūpaṃ, rūpasmiṃ vā attānaṃ …”; SN 35:90; MN 44; see Lamotte (2001: 1640) for a more extensive list.
<<reaches over to find Snr Lamotte's magnum opus...copy past>>
The emptiness of beings (sattvaśūnyatā) serves as antidote to the fatal satkāyadṛṣṭi or belief in an individual. This is a wrong view (dṛṣṭi) mistakenly attributing a self to the five aggregates of attachment (upādānaskandha). Indeed, Śāriputra said that the five upādānaskandha are called satkāya by the Buddha (S. IV, p. 259): Pañcime upādānakkhandā sakkāyo vutto Bhagavatā), and the Teacher himself stated that the five skandhas, rūpa, etc., must be present in order that satkāyadṛṣṭi be produced (S. III, p. 185).
Led astray by this wrong view, the ignorant worldly person considers the rūpa as the ātman (rūpaṃ attato samanupassati), or the ātman as possessing the rūpa (rūpavantaṃ vā attānaṃ), or the rūpa as present in the ātman (attani vā rūpaṃ), or the ātman as present in the rūpa (rūpasmiṃ vā attānaṃ). And it is the same for the other skandhas: vedanā, saṃjñā, saṃskāra and vijñāna (M. I, p. 300; III, p. 17; S. III, p. 3-4, 15-17, 42-43, 46, 56, 102, 113-14, 138, 150, 164-165; S. IV, p. 287, 395; A. II, p. 214-215; Mahāvyut., no 4685-4704). The worldly person thus nourishing four prejudices (abhiniveśa) in regard to each of the four skandhas, we speak of the vimśatiśikharasamudgataḥ satkāyadṛṣṭiśailaḥ: the twenty-peaked mountain of the satkāyadṛṣṭi (Gilgit Manuscripts.III, 1, p. 21, 7-8; Divyāvadāna, p. 46, 25; 52, 24-25; 549, 16; 554, 20; Avadānaśataka, I, p. 385, 12).
<< aah! good old Snr Lamotte, where would I be without him... relying on my own brain?! heaven forbid!! >>
I'll leave out the other ones from non-Theravadin sources, just to be a good boy.