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Challenging the traditional view of Anatta - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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cooran
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:29 am

Hello DorjePhurba, all,

Please read this chapter by Ven. Walpola Rahula called THE DOCTRINE OF NO-SOUL: ANATTA in his esteemed book What the Buddha Taught:
http://www.quangduc.com/English/basic/6 ... ht-06.html

metta
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:52 am

Last edited by Paññāsikhara on Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:12 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby Paññāsikhara » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:14 am

With due respect to Retro, I think one has to appreciate the distorted views that Rahula was refuting.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:18 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:43 am

It seems to me, and I am no Buddhist scholar just a would-be Buddhist student, that that the No Soul v No Self discussion goes right to the very heart of the difference between the Theravada and the Mahayana.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby enkidu » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:38 pm


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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:09 pm

Probably best left there enkidu. I am sure we can all reach our own views on the issue.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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cooran
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby cooran » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:15 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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retrofuturist
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:02 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:01 pm


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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby pink_trike » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:05 pm

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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poto
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby poto » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:32 pm

Spend more time meditating. That way you will have direct experience of Anatta and will not have to speculate as to it's meaning.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:51 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:30 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:48 am

I don’t find Ven Thanissaro’s argument all that convincing. It is not totally wrong, but it is hardly totally correct. Anatta can certainly be translated as “no self.” There is nothing in the structure and grammar of the word that says otherwise. One might appeal to context, but that is not always clear cut either.

“sabbe dhamma anatta” This is to say within the full range of whatever can be experienced by a worldling or by a Buddha there is no self to be found. Anatta can tell us that this or that is not a self, but it also tells us that there is no self in terms of an unchanging, self identical agent to be found anywhere in any way.

Monks, whatever contemplatives or priests who assume in various ways when assuming a self, all assume the five clinging-aggregates, or a certain one of them. - SN III 46.

This is simply saying that there is no self that is not a conditioned process.

Not self or no self, it depends upon context.

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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:04 am

if there is no self to be found which seems to be pretty much accepted then "how then is there a soul" is a good question to ask here. i mean without a self to hold, have, be whatever it is one does with a soul, what point is there in even believing in a soul?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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tiltbillings
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:07 am


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BlackBird
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby BlackBird » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:21 am

Is annihilationism wrong view in so far as it too has to presume a self to be annihilated?
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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cooran
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Re: Challenging the traditional view of Anatta

Postby cooran » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:29 am

Last edited by cooran on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---


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