Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Paññāsikhara
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Paññāsikhara »

suanck wrote:
Don't know if some Buddhist organisations in Taiwan or Japan, with strong financial supports, could organize and/or sponsor such joint research? Perhaps it's just my wishful thinking ...
Yes, organizations in Taiwan and / or Japan probably could do that.

But ...

These organizations, though having academic elements, are almost all based on, and receive their support from, the Buddhism practiced by the ordinary people, obviously including their big financial sponsors.

Why would they want to spend money and time promoting texts (the Agamas) and forms of Buddhism (early Indian Buddhism) which are often quite at odds with the traditions that they have upheld for the past 1000+ yrs?

For example, can you see a Japanese school based on the Lotus Sutra (eg. forms of Tendai, Nichiren, etc.) encourage people to seriously spend time and effort to investigate the Agamas as opposed to the Lotus sutra, which they uphold as the ultimate teaching ever given?

Any real look into the Agamas (let alone the Nikayas) in East Asian Buddhism in the last 100 yrs, has only come from a small group of scholars, and some very tiny and minority practice groups in the last 10-20 years. The majority of the Buddhist population in these countries tends to look at this as "Hinayana". Enough said.
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BlackBird
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by BlackBird »

Insightful doesn't quite do this justice.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Paññāsikhara
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Paññāsikhara »

And likewise too, why it is difficult to find good backing for investigations into the history of the Mahayana and Tantric traditions in places like Sri Lanka, and most of SE Asia, where, for several centuries, they were quite popular and strong. You know, simple little things, like copper plates of the large Prajnaparamita sutra, and other such things.
:focus:
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Bankei
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Bankei »

suanck wrote:
zavk wrote:

Since Pali (and Sanskrit) and Classical Chinese are difficult languages to master -- and require several years to study, I wonder if it's better to have joint effort, collaboration / team effort, for a group of scholars (some are fluent in Pali & some are fluent in Classical Chinese) to work together on the subject, instead of individual studies?

Suan
Actually Ven Analayo has teamed up with Rod Bucknell and Sujato Bhikkhu on a project. see http://suttacentral.net/contacts.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rod Bucknell has written a few articles (some in JIABS) and a few books too, he was formerly a monk in Thailand and later a lecturer in Buddhist Studies at QLD Uni and is proficient in Chinese, Sanskrit, Thai and a few more.
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Bankei
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Bankei »

Paññāsikhara wrote:And likewise too, why it is difficult to find good backing for investigations into the history of the Mahayana and Tantric traditions in places like Sri Lanka, and most of SE Asia, where, for several centuries, they were quite popular and strong. You know, simple little things, like copper plates of the large Prajnaparamita sutra, and other such things.
:focus:
Hi Ven Paññāsikhara

This is an area that I am interested in too and I have collected a number of articles and books over the years. I will try to put together a list when I have time. There is a fair bit out there already.

Bankei
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Paññāsikhara »

Bankei wrote:
suanck wrote:
zavk wrote:

Since Pali (and Sanskrit) and Classical Chinese are difficult languages to master -- and require several years to study, I wonder if it's better to have joint effort, collaboration / team effort, for a group of scholars (some are fluent in Pali & some are fluent in Classical Chinese) to work together on the subject, instead of individual studies?

Suan
Actually Ven Analayo has teamed up with Rod Bucknell and Sujato Bhikkhu on a project. see http://suttacentral.net/contacts.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rod Bucknell has written a few articles (some in JIABS) and a few books too, he was formerly a monk in Thailand and later a lecturer in Buddhist Studies at QLD Uni and is proficient in Chinese, Sanskrit, Thai and a few more.
He wrote a really neat little article on the samyuttas of the Sagatha-vagga in the Samyuttanikaya, published in the Buddhist studies review.
Well worth a look at. He was also Choong's supervisor for the latter's studies which lead to the Notion of Emptiness book.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by tiltbillings »

Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Paññāsikhara »

tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).
You wanna?
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tiltbillings
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by tiltbillings »

Paññāsikhara wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote:Buddhist studies review.
The problem with BSR is that it costs an arm and several toes to get access to the article. Not like the good old days when Russell Webb started it, when it was quite affordable and even I could publish in it (at least a book review).
You wanna?
Publish? Not any more. Read the article you mentioned? Yes indeedy.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
suanck
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by suanck »

Paññāsikhara wrote:
Bankei wrote:

Actually Ven Analayo has teamed up with Rod Bucknell and Sujato Bhikkhu on a project. see http://suttacentral.net/contacts.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rod Bucknell has written a few articles (some in JIABS) and a few books too, he was formerly a monk in Thailand and later a lecturer in Buddhist Studies at QLD Uni and is proficient in Chinese, Sanskrit, Thai and a few more.
He wrote a really neat little article on the samyuttas of the Sagatha-vagga in the Samyuttanikaya, published in the Buddhist studies review.
Well worth a look at. He was also Choong's supervisor for the latter's studies which lead to the Notion of Emptiness book.
I believe Ven Analayo, Ven Sujato, and Dr Bucknell are good in Pali, but I am not sure if they are proficient in Classical Chinese (although as stated by Ven Pannasikhara, Dr Bucknell was Dr Choong's supervisor).

Suan
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Paññāsikhara »

I am not sure, either. Though I have heard and definitely think that Bhante Analayo can read it.

There is still quite some difference between recognizing characters and reading sentences with the aid of a dictionary, and just being able to sit down and read the text straight off, knowing each word, it's Pali / Sanskrit equivalent, and appropriate grammar, function, etc. within the sentence in question.

I'll have a look into that Bucknell article again, later today.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Bankei
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Bankei »

I think Rod Bcuknell used to teach classical Chinese at UQ and also recall seeing a book on Sanskrit he authored. He has also translated some of Buddhadassa's books from Thai to English.
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Kare »

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but Stephen Hodge is working on a book on the Chinese language of the early Agama translations, explaining it for Pali students. Here is a very interesting chapter from that book:

http://pratyeka.org/btc/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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suanck
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by suanck »

Thanks, Kare. That's very interesting.

BTW, on the subject of translation, I have been told that the entire Pali Tipitaka, the 4 Chinese Agamas, and 3 Chinese Vinaya sets (from the Dharmagupta, Mahasanghika, and Sarvastivada schools) have been translated into the modern Vietnamese language in the last 50 years, and are also available on the Internet. Don't know if there are similar attempts of translation to other contemportary languages?

Suan
Bankei
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Re: Samyutta-Nikaya & Samyuktagama

Post by Bankei »

This may be of interest

http://buddhistinformatics.ddbc.edu.tw/analayo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dharma Drum Buddhist College Website
for research projects involving Bhikkhu Anālayo
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