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Women can't become Buddhas? - Dhamma Wheel

Women can't become Buddhas?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
thecap
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Women can't become Buddhas?

Postby thecap » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:53 pm

Hi friends

In the Majjhima Nikaya, in the Discourse on Many Element (115) it is said: "It is impossible that a woman should be the perfect rightfully Enlightened One. It is possible that a man should be the perfect rightfully Enlightened One."

Why?
Last edited by retrofuturist on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Subject line changed to reflect the true nature of the question and hopefully keep the replies a bit more on topic. Formerly "Women's Can't Be Enlightened?"

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mikenz66
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:06 pm

Greetings,

This is a statement about becoming a Buddha. There are many Suttas describing Women becoming Arahants (which is what I would understand by "Enlightenment" in a Theravada context).

Metta
Mike

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Jechbi
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Jechbi » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:17 pm

Here's some .

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kc2dpt
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby kc2dpt » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:33 pm

- Peter


thecap
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby thecap » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:51 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby clw_uk » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:30 pm

The statement refers to a time when men had more influence. If buddha had been a women she would not have been taken as seriously and wouldnt have been able to help as many people. If for example the buddha 2,500 years ago never came but would appear in our time instead then there would be more chance of the buddha having female body because in most modern societies women are seen as equal and can have just as much influence as men.



As a futher note in a real sense the buddha of anytime is neither male nor female, only the body are these things and you cant identify the buddha with a physical body.

:namaste:
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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cooran
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Hello thecap, all,

All this means is that a being who in this rebirth is a human female cannot become that rarest of all beings, a Sammasambuddha. Every other being who has re-become in human form as a male, also cannot become a Sammasambuddha. A Sammasambuddha is one who discovers the Truth of the Dhamma for himself after all knowledge of it has completely vanished from the world. After discovering it, he sets up the Four pillars of Buddhism: bhikkhu or. male monk, bhikkuni or female monk, upasaka or layman, and upasika or laywoman and, out of compassion, teaches the Dhamma to the world once again. Enlightened beings are Arahants of either gender, but not Sammasambuddhas.

Males, in this world, of all species, are usually stronger and more aggressive. Therefore they rule and take most of the important positions as the human world develops after each formation of the universe - especially in rural and more less industrial populations where the first glimmerings of questioning 'why are we here' 'where did we come from' 'where are we going after death' arise. This is usually the time when it is most effective for a great being, a Bodhisatta, to take rebirth and become a Fully Enlghtened Sammasambuddha.

Arahants have the same enlightenment as a Buddha.

metta
cooran
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:42 pm



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mikenz66
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:51 pm


thecap
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby thecap » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:31 pm


Individual
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Individual » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:00 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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Ben
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:12 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Element

Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:34 am

The teaching from MN 115 is a woman cannot become a self-enlightened Buddha and establish the Buddhist religion.

Element

Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:44 am


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:50 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

thecap
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby thecap » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:10 am

Last edited by thecap on Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Element

Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:18 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 25, 2009 2:52 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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genkaku
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby genkaku » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:26 am

Please delete if it is somehow off-topic, but I would like to ask:

If we make distinctions between men and women, are we still talking about enlightenment?
Smile just one smile




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kc2dpt
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jan 25, 2009 3:28 am

thecap,

Just to be clear, now-a-days neither male nor female can become sammasambuddha because we are still living during the age of the previous sammasambuddha. So looking around the the conditions of today's society is irrelevant.

We don't know what the social conditions will be when the next sammasambuddha arises.
- Peter



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