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Monasticim and parental permission - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Monasticim and parental permission

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:21 am


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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby suanck » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:39 am


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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby suanck » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:59 am


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BlackBird
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby BlackBird » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:10 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby pink_trike » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:43 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:05 am

Image




vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:39 am

And I have three more questions to Vinaya pundits :)

If a monk-to-be doesn't have a permission, is his ordination valid in following cases?

1) He knowingly lies that he has a permission (when asked in Pali at a formal ceremony).
2) He doesn't know that permission is necessary and just says "yes" in Pali as he was taught to, not understanding the meaning of question.
3) He wasn't asked about permission at the ordination (e.g. if preceptor has forgotten to ask that or knowingly omitted this question).

As far as I understand in third case preceptor commits a dukkata offenсe, but what about a newly-ordained bhikkhu then?

vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:55 am

Another interesting and related topic is samanera ordination.

Samaneras are not asked about parental consent at ordination.

I wonder,

1) How samanera ordination was established?
2) Was it designed especially for children? If Buddha had banned children from becoming bhikkhus (because they could hardly bear ascetic lifestyle), why he let them ordain as a samanera? Then, what is the essential difference, making samanera ordination available for children?
3) May an adult ordain as samanera according to Pali canon and the Commentary? Were any such cases registered at that time? If no, when and why the practice of "adult samaneras" emerged?
4) Why samaneras are not asked about permission of their parents? Was it because it went without saying that they have it? Could a run-away kid become a samanera?

vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:07 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:52 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Bankei
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Bankei » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:15 am

-----------------------
Bankei

vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:27 pm

Thanks Manapa,

As far as I remember, Tathagata after talking with his father established a rule about parental consent, not about samaneras. Anyway, thanks, I will try to look up in the Buddhist monastic code.

vitellius
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby vitellius » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:32 pm

Hello Bankei, thanks for sharing!

In fact by "valid" I meant compliance with Vinaya and Atthakatha, - and Thai "common practices" sometimes are somewhat different...

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Cittasanto
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:38 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Biija
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Biija » Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:08 pm

Hi, fellows! I'll become an anagaraka at Wat Pah Nanachat, Thailand. I'm 29 years old, have a sister almost two years older than me and my parents allow me to ordain. Although the full ordination is still an uncertain event, must I request to my parents an authenticated letter in which they give me permission for full ordination? Would it be valid? Or is my "yes" enough at the moment of ordination? Probably, my parents won't be present at the ceremony. :thinking:

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Dhammanando
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Dhammanando » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:51 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

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Biija
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Re: Monasticim and parental permission

Postby Biija » Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:55 pm



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