Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

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Dhammanando
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Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:49 am

Greetings all,

Attached are two articles recently made available by their author, U Pandita (not the Mahasi meditation teacher of this name, but another Burmese scholar monk). The articles are a critique of two contentions in Dr. Juo-Hsüeh Shih's article, Controversies over Buddhist Nuns, namely, her claim that Buddhaghosa misinterprets the term 'anupasampanno' in his commentary to the the Vinaya's duṭṭhullārocana training rule, and the claim (made also by Gombrich) that there once existed bhikkhunīs ordained by the "ehi bhikkhunī" method.

anupasampanno.pdf
(84.15 KiB) Downloaded 127 times


ehibhikkhuni.pdf
(101.9 KiB) Downloaded 112 times
    Yathā bubbuḷakaṃ passe, yathā passe marīcikaṃ,
    Evaṃ lokaṃ avekkhantaṃ, maccurājā na passati.

    One should see it as a bubble;
    One should see it as a mirage.
    Who regards the world thus
    The King of Death sees him not.
    (Dhammapada 170)


    ผู้ที่มองเห็นโลก ว่าไม่จีรังและหาสาระอะไรมิได้
    เช่นเดียวกับคนมองฟองน้ำและพยับแดด
    คนเช่นนี้พญามารย่อมตามหาไม่พบ ฯ
    (ธรรมบท ๑๗๐)

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 am

Thank you Ajahn!
metta

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:58 am

Thank-you bhante, I will have a read of these later
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:58 pm

had a read and the second was very interesting more so than the first for me at least
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Dhammanando
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:00 am

Attached is another article by U Pandita: Was the Buddha Obliged to Observe Vinaya Rules?

buddha_vinaya.pdf
(111.96 KiB) Downloaded 83 times


From the introduction:

    Juo-Hsüeh Shih makes an interesting assumption in her work Controversies over Buddhist Nuns when she discusses the historicity of ñatticatutthakamma ordination form in Vinaya:

    Moreover, evidence in the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta of the DN suggests that the Buddha himself may have used this formula [i. e., the ehibhikkhu formula]1 all his life. (352) So why did the Buddha not follow the procedure [i. e., the ñatticatutthakamma procedure]2 he had himself prescribed? (355) It is more plausible to suggest that the last stage in the evolution of the ordination process, the ñatticatutthakammaupasampadā, began after the Buddha’s death . . . (356)

    Her argument can be schematized as follows:

    1. If the Buddha really prescribed the ñatticatutthakamma ordination during his lifetime, he must have adopted it in giving ordination to his followers.
    2. But he used the older ehibhikkhu formula all his life.
    3. Therefore:
    a) Either he failed to observe his own rule,
    b) Or the ñatticatutthakamma ordination is a later development that has materialized only after his passing away.
    4. But the Buddha could not have failed to observe his own rules.
    5. Therefore, only the conclusion (3b) is plausible.

    As seen above, her argument is based on the assumption that the Buddha was obliged to observe Vinaya rules like his followers. “No one is above the law”, she seems to say, not even the Buddha himself.

    However, I find it difficult to take her assumption at face value because it contradicts the orthodox Theravādin view...
    Yathā bubbuḷakaṃ passe, yathā passe marīcikaṃ,
    Evaṃ lokaṃ avekkhantaṃ, maccurājā na passati.

    One should see it as a bubble;
    One should see it as a mirage.
    Who regards the world thus
    The King of Death sees him not.
    (Dhammapada 170)


    ผู้ที่มองเห็นโลก ว่าไม่จีรังและหาสาระอะไรมิได้
    เช่นเดียวกับคนมองฟองน้ำและพยับแดด
    คนเช่นนี้พญามารย่อมตามหาไม่พบ ฯ
    (ธรรมบท ๑๗๐)

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Cittasanto
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:09 am

Not read it yet, but down loaded and will read today!
Thank-you Bhante!

EDIT - The download was broken for me? anyone else have any joy downloading it?
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Dhammanando
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Dhammanando » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:51 am

I've uploaded it again.It downloads okay onto my computer.
    Yathā bubbuḷakaṃ passe, yathā passe marīcikaṃ,
    Evaṃ lokaṃ avekkhantaṃ, maccurājā na passati.

    One should see it as a bubble;
    One should see it as a mirage.
    Who regards the world thus
    The King of Death sees him not.
    (Dhammapada 170)


    ผู้ที่มองเห็นโลก ว่าไม่จีรังและหาสาระอะไรมิได้
    เช่นเดียวกับคนมองฟองน้ำและพยับแดด
    คนเช่นนี้พญามารย่อมตามหาไม่พบ ฯ
    (ธรรมบท ๑๗๐)

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Cittasanto
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Downloaded fine that Time Thanks!
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

User avatar
Cittasanto
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Re: Two new articles on bhikkhunīs

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:59 pm

Very interesting I managed to read the whole thing instead of 5 pages at a time :)
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."


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