Relationships
Relationships
The Buddha laid down some basic guidelines for families, etc., but did he lay down in the suttas any advice on how to advance romantic relationships in the first place? For instance: how does one even begin a romantic relationship if he's supposed to avoid attachment. I'm really interested in how this is supposed to work, I understand (I think) that one shouldn't be sexually promiscuous etc., but that's not what I'm really talking about here. I'm talking about the forming of a mutual relationship and bond. Is that not a form of clinging?
Re: Relationships
You mean did Buddha give any advice in getting a girlfriend? I don't think he did.
Re: Relationships
Hi Adam
I'm sure you've heard of the saying that 'love is selfish'? If I may indulge in some pop-psychology here... I think a key to a healthy romantic relationship is that the partners learn to recognize when they are projecting their desires and expectations onto one another. Recognizing this opens up the space for mutual respect and a less selfish (if not selfless) kind of love. This has been my experience. I had a failed relationship because I did not realize that what I thought was 'love' was actually an unhealthy kind of 'self-love'. Buddhism of course teaches us a healthier kind of 'self-love'. See, for example, the Mallikaa Sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm sure you've heard of the saying that 'love is selfish'? If I may indulge in some pop-psychology here... I think a key to a healthy romantic relationship is that the partners learn to recognize when they are projecting their desires and expectations onto one another. Recognizing this opens up the space for mutual respect and a less selfish (if not selfless) kind of love. This has been my experience. I had a failed relationship because I did not realize that what I thought was 'love' was actually an unhealthy kind of 'self-love'. Buddhism of course teaches us a healthier kind of 'self-love'. See, for example, the Mallikaa Sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
With metta,
zavk
zavk
Re: Relationships
That made me smile today.Dugu wrote:You mean did Buddha give any advice in getting a girlfriend? I don't think he did.
~nomad
"I am because we are." -Xhosa Tribal Saying
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Re: Relationships
Not sure what the Buddha would say, but in my experience, relationships -- whether intimate or not -- are a burden where the costs are greater than the rewards.
If you can find someone you can trust, respect, love, and develop happiness mutually with, then great, but I don't think that most relationships end up "happily ever after" except in fairy tales.
If you can find someone you can trust, respect, love, and develop happiness mutually with, then great, but I don't think that most relationships end up "happily ever after" except in fairy tales.
Last edited by Individual on Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Relationships
Nah, I've had more than plenty. What I mean is did the Buddha give advice on how relationships should be fostered? I can go out and have a girlfriend by the end of the week, that doesn't mean that I'm following the buddha's teachings when I do that, or that I'm being skillful about it.Dugu wrote:You mean did Buddha give any advice in getting a girlfriend? I don't think he did.
Re: Relationships
Hi Adam,
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There is advice on continuing a relationship. As you say, it's a form of clinging, but most of us are not likely to be giving up clinging any time soon...adamposey wrote: I'm talking about the forming of a mutual relationship and bond. Is that not a form of clinging?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mike"If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come, they should be in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment. Then they will see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come."
Re: Relationships
NOW we're getting somewhere. Would the buddha have advised against starting relationships? Was there ever mention of the beginning of one, what to watch, etc.?mikenz66 wrote:Hi Adam,There is advice on continuing a relationship. As you say, it's a form of clinging, but most of us are not likely to be giving up clinging any time soon...adamposey wrote: I'm talking about the forming of a mutual relationship and bond. Is that not a form of clinging?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Mike"If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come, they should be in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment. Then they will see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come."
Re: Relationships
I'm not sure. Here's the chapter on "The Happiness Visible in This Present Life" from "In the Buddha's Words", by Bhikkhu Bodhi (see the PDF of up to Chapter 1 here: http://wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=104). That's where I got that particular Sutta.adamposey wrote: NOW we're getting somewhere. Would the buddha have advised against starting relationships? Was there ever mention of the beginning of one, what to watch, etc.?
I don't think any of them specifically address starting relationships, but there may be other Suttas that do that.IV. The Happiness Visible in This Present Life
Introduction 107
1. Upholding the Dhamma in Society
(1) The King of the Dhamma (AN 3:14) 115
(2) Worshipping the Six Directions (from DN 31) 116
2. The Family
(1) Parents and Children
(a) Respect for Parents (AN 4:63) 118
(b) Repaying One’s Parents (AN 2: iv, 2) 119
(2) Husbands and Wives
(a) Different Kinds of Marriages (AN 4:53) 119
(b) How to Be United in Future Lives (AN 4:55) 121
(c) Seven Kinds of Wives (AN 7:59) 122
3. Present Welfare, Future Welfare (AN 8:54) 124
4. Right Livelihood
(1) Avoiding Wrong Livelihood (AN 5:177) 126
(2) The Proper Use of Wealth (AN 4:61) 126
(3) A Family Man’s Happiness (AN 4:62) 127
5. The Woman of the Home (AN 8:49) 128
6. The Community
(1) Six Roots of Dispute (from MN 104) 130
(2) Six Principles of Cordiality (from MN 104) 131
(3) Purification Is for All Four Castes (MN 93, abridged) 132
(4) Seven Principles of Social Stability (from DN 16) 137
(5) The Wheel-Turning Monarch (from DN 26) 139
(6) Bringing Tranquillity to the Land (from DN 5) 141
Many Sutta collections ignore the Suttas about "how to live a good, useful, life", and go straight to renunciation, so the sort of thing you are looking for tend to be hard to find. A lot of the Suttas ablve are not on Access to Insight, for example.
Metta
Mike
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Re: Relationships
So, if you're highly immoral, it's best you find somebody who is scum like you.mikenz66 wrote:Hi Adam,There is advice on continuing a relationship. As you say, it's a form of clinging, but most of us are not likely to be giving up clinging any time soon...adamposey wrote: I'm talking about the forming of a mutual relationship and bond. Is that not a form of clinging?
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Mike"If both husband & wife want to see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come, they should be in tune [with each other] in conviction, in tune in virtue, in tune in generosity, and in tune in discernment. Then they will see one another not only in the present life but also in the life to come."
Re: Relationships
A Happy Married Life: A Buddhist Perspective
Nothing Higher to Live For: A Buddhist View of Romantic Love
Neither of these are "how to get a girlfriend," but they may help contextualize things a bit for you.
Nothing Higher to Live For: A Buddhist View of Romantic Love
Neither of these are "how to get a girlfriend," but they may help contextualize things a bit for you.
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Re: Relationships
Try simply being a good friend!
but I am most probably not the best person to give advice
but I am most probably not the best person to give advice
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Relationships
Buddha gave a lot of information on how to have skillfull interactions with people in general. He also told us of the precepts and more specifically, the third precept.
Combine the two, and you have some good advice on relationships. I might be shot down here, but when I've met with a situation where I can't find a specific teaching on a subject, I look for similar teachings to see if they apply or try and use my good sense rather than saying "Well, I must not be looking hard enough -- time to learn me some Pali"
In short: you can probably guess the basics (don't be a douche, avoid one-night stands etc) and if you want more details then similar teachings will give you insight. What is a lover but a best friend you sleep with?
Combine the two, and you have some good advice on relationships. I might be shot down here, but when I've met with a situation where I can't find a specific teaching on a subject, I look for similar teachings to see if they apply or try and use my good sense rather than saying "Well, I must not be looking hard enough -- time to learn me some Pali"
In short: you can probably guess the basics (don't be a douche, avoid one-night stands etc) and if you want more details then similar teachings will give you insight. What is a lover but a best friend you sleep with?
Re: Relationships
I don't think he gave any specific advice. Follow the precepts, be kind and understanding. This will make your relationships with other people a lot better in general.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Re: Relationships
Oh and don't think of her as 'MY girlfriend' cause that's bound to cause trouble
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn