Why did you choose Theravada?

[tiltbillings]

I have two turkeys in ovens . . . .

All very nice, but a bit of a dodge, it seems. No one is anywhere close to asking you to drop everything to answer the question reasonably put to you. Very simply one could say: "I am very busy at this moment, but in a day or two when I have enough free time, I'll be more than happy to respond in detail." Very simply.

[Dan74]

Increasingly, scholars are unable to find any solid evidence of it...evidence that should be available if he actually lived and wasn't just a conceptual devise.

Back up your claim.

Here's something:

Lopez (1995). Buddhism in Practice. Princeton University Press. pp. 16

I was just pointing out that without a very thorough understanding of how the Sutra was constructed, the specific use of metaphor and allegory, and more importantly, the cultural milieu within which it was constructed, it would be impossible to even consider the possibility of the grand conclusions you put forth.

Back up your claim.

Not my claim and I haven't read the Lotus Sutra but the above seems common sense to me. To understand a text it helps to understand the context.

_/|\_

[pink_trike]

I have two turkeys in ovens . . . .

All very nice, but a bit of a dodge, it seems. No one is anywhere close to asking you to drop everything to answer the question reasonably put to you. Very simply one could say: "I am very busy at this moment, but in a day or two when I have enough free time, I'll be more than happy to respond in detail." Very simply.

Thank you for educating me on how I should respond when I'm busy. I didn't realize that "I'm too busy right now" was inadequate. Perhaps you might consider that barking "back up your claim." might be stated a bit differently. Maybe something along the lines of "That's very interesting. Could you provide some more details when you have time?".

[pink_trike]

I have two turkeys in ovens . . . .

All very nice, but a bit of a dodge, it seems.

LOL...you're persistently consistent.

[BlackBird]

Did a bit of a search round the internet, couldn't find much that wasn't marred with opinion, nothing factual in any case.

Buddha-denial
...and you thought rebirth-denial was bad...

[Reductor]

]

What part of "I'm too busy" and "I'm not interested" don't you understand?

Yes, yes...I know, saying this just proves that my claim is baseless.

It is cheap talk to make such claims and then being "unwilling" - unable - to back them up. You are correct, your claims are baseless.

I have two turkeys in ovens, and am making a couple of pies. Shortly a whole bunch of friends and family who also don't care if there was a living buddha or not are going to start ringing the doorbell. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you...I understand you're in a big hurry, but that's hardly justification for calling my so-called claim "cheap" and saying I'm "unwilling". Get a grip...I have a life and that one line "claim" doesn't justify your reactive froth or the urgency you're bringing to this imaginary issue. Isn't right about now when you slam the topic shut?

Have a great holiday!

Right pink_trike, you too.

As for this disagreement, isn't it silly? I mean, why should Buddhists get a little uptight with such an offhanded statement?
After all, its not like the entire foundation of Buddhism rests on Gotama's actual, real and tangible enlightenment experience, right?

And why wouldn't a religious person just accept your statement and not call bullocks? Why would they hound you
for a reference? Can't they see that you're too busy, what with your many posts to the forum saying that you are, or
saying that you don't care if the Buddha existed. Can't they just not care too? Such people, they're a little beneath you.

Well, have a good holiday.

[tiltbillings]

I have two turkeys in ovens . . . .

All very nice, but a bit of a dodge, it seems. No one is anywhere close to asking you to drop everything to answer the question reasonably put to you. Very simply one could say: "I am very busy at this moment, but in a day or two when I have enough free time, I'll be more than happy to respond in detail." Very simply.

Thank you for educating me on how I should respond when I'm busy.

Obviously too busy for giving the situation considered thought, but always happy to help.

[BlackBird]

I think it has a lot to do with projection TheReductor.

In these situations it's very easy to project what emotions you think the other party is feeling. In a disagreement over the internet it may be that both people initially project that the other person must be angry, when in fact neither are, and thus it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Tilt certainly doesn't mash his words, neither does PT, which is perhaps why this whole situation might seem a little angsty, but that may not be the case.

I've got an idea, let's ask these two gentlemen how they feel:

Tilt, are you angry?
Pink Trike, are you angry?

Are either of you harboring resentment?

metta
Jack

[tiltbillings]

I have two turkeys in ovens . . . .

All very nice, but a bit of a dodge, it seems.

LOL...you're persistently consistent.

Given how busy you are with all those turkeys and what you do seem to have a surprising amount of time for the snideness.

[pink_trike]

As for this disagreement, isn't it silly?

More than a little

...why should Buddhists get a little uptight with such an offhanded statement?

Fear? Insecurity? intolerance?

...its not like the entire foundation of Buddhism rests on Gotama's actual, real and tangible enlightenment experience, right?

That's debatable, but the foundations of the Dharma surely don't depend on it. [the term "enlightenment" is a poorly understood translation that's created much confusion and delusion].

And why wouldn't a religious person just accept your statement and not call bullocks?

My statement that secular scholars are having trouble finding a Buddha that actually lived? Since that debate really does exist and it has for a long time, what's to call bullocks on?

Can't they see that you're too busy

I should drop everything and start looking through books. Saying "I'm busy" 3 times isn't acceptable to religious people? My, my...

Can't they just not care too?

Now that you mention it, it does seem like they're a bit touchy around certain subjects that maybe rub up against their comfort zone. I stated a fact (yes, there is a debate). I offered no opinion regarding that debate. Why all the reactivity and urgency?

Anyway, gotta go or I'll burn the pies. When I have time and it seems interesting enough I'll dig out some info. Please, don't anyone hold their breath. I'm into retreat starting monday and won't be back until the 4th.

[tiltbillings]

I think it has a lot to do with projection TheReductor.

Reread his msg. Might it not be an expression of irony?

Tilt, are you angry?

No. Simply asking a question. it is all too easy to make statements without putting one's money where the mouth has flapped, which doers not make for dialogue.

Are either of you harboring resentment?

Not today.

[Tex]

After all, its not like the entire foundation of Buddhism rests on Gotama's actual, real and tangible enlightenment experience, right?

I think some might argue that it does.

Edit: Apparently I missed the irony too by not reading closely enough, apologies. But I do think it's worth noting that this is not the first time I've heard it suggested that "it doesn't matter if the Buddha was real or not". It most certainly does.

[pink_trike]

Given how busy you are with all those turkeys and what you do seem to have a surprising amount of time for the snideness.

Dinner is at 9:30 pm. It's 8:50 pm. I've have somewhere around 5000 books in no particular order. Tilt, I'm so very sorry I can't cancel everything, sort through my books and papers, and attend to your demand.

[BlackBird]

Reread his msg. Might it not be an expression of irony?

Well, now that you mention it.

[pink_trike]

Pink Trike, are you angry?

Not in the slightest.

M'gawd...non-issue.