Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:13 am

Thanks Venerable!

Can you say what is the relationship between this Sutra and those translated from Chinese by Thich Nhat Hanh in "Breath! You are alive: Sutra on the full awareness of breathing"? He has his own translation of the Anapanasati Sutta and also an appendix with extracts from what he says are the Samyutaka Agama (Tsa A Han, cahpter 29, Taisho Revised Tripitika, number 99). The particular Sutras are numbers 815, 803, and 810. It's 803 that has the four tetrads and there are differences between this and the Pali version.

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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Ben » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:26 am

Thank you Venerable!
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Dec 26, 2009 4:38 am

mikenz66 wrote:Thanks Venerable!

Can you say what is the relationship between this Sutra and those translated from Chinese by Thich Nhat Hanh in "Breath! You are alive: Sutra on the full awareness of breathing"? He has his own translation of the Anapanasati Sutta and also an appendix with extracts from what he says are the Samyutaka Agama (Tsa A Han, cahpter 29, Taisho Revised Tripitika, number 99). The particular Sutras are numbers 815, 803, and 810. It's 803 that has the four tetrads and there are differences between this and the Pali version.

Metta
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Well, the "Tsa A Han" is the Chinese version of the Samyuktagama. (It's kind of interesting that Ven Hanh uses this version, because in Chinese (incl. Vietnamese) Buddhism, they were very seldom used, and as far as I know, basically never in the Chan / Zen traditions, which used other texts. They would tend to use that "dhyana-samadhi sutra" and the like, more than the Agamas.) Without sitting down and looking over them for a few hours at least, it is hard to say. There are already some comments on those texts in that Analayo article, though. There are a lot of versions of the anapanasati sutta around. Not just in these agama / nikaya forms, but also appearing whole or partially in Abhidharma texts, Yogacara texts, and even the large Prajnaparamita sutra. Ven Prof Dhammajoti did a few classes, comparing some of them together, but not all of them. It would be fairly involved work to really sort out what was going on, their inter-relationships, etc., let alone the implications of the practices.
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:40 am

Manapa wrote:hi ben
http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... f/analayo/

here is a file from the university of hamberg which has some of Bhantes works of varying sizes and much is very interesting, although some are copies from encyclopedia entries by bhante there are other papers there!
and you might be able to contact bhante through one of the links on his profile found here http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... .html?&L=1
there are other papers from other authors found in predominantly German, but some English also.


Wow, Manapa! Great little goldmine there, that is! Thank you very much.
I've been a bit of a fan of Ven Analayo for a couple of years. Haven't had the time to read his book from cover to cover, but have definitely a fair bit of it.
He also has a few articles for the buddhist studies journal that Ven Prof Dhammajoti publishes from here in HK (technically in Sri Lanka).
In general, I really like his approach, and for the area of early (agama / nikaya) buddhism, I try to take the same approach (though he is quite a few years ahead of me in scholarship!)

This article here is really great. There are now a few agama / nikaya comparative studies, table and charts, and things, but this is one of the first which outlines some basic theories and principles of how to go about them. It goes beyond this textual genre, too, and can be extended - with modifications - elsewhere. So, I think that parts of this are definitely about to make their way into my methodology chapter in my dissertation!

Good scholarship which is critical but not hypercritical, which is able to understand the Dhamma, without being credulous.

Thank you! :)
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 6:06 am

Hi Venerable,
Paññāsikhara wrote:Well, the "Tsa A Han" is the Chinese version of the Samyuktagama. (It's kind of interesting that Ven Hanh uses this version, because in Chinese (incl. Vietnamese) Buddhism, they were very seldom used, and as far as I know, basically never in the Chan / Zen traditions, which used other texts. They would tend to use that "dhyana-samadhi sutra" and the like, more than the Agamas.) ....

Thanks for the comments. Yes, it's sometimes interesting what Ven Hanh comes up with...

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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Dec 26, 2009 12:18 pm

Paññāsikhara wrote:
Manapa wrote:hi ben
http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... f/analayo/

here is a file from the university of hamberg which has some of Bhantes works of varying sizes and much is very interesting, although some are copies from encyclopedia entries by bhante there are other papers there!
and you might be able to contact bhante through one of the links on his profile found here http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... .html?&L=1
there are other papers from other authors found in predominantly German, but some English also.


Wow, Manapa! Great little goldmine there, that is! Thank you very much.
I've been a bit of a fan of Ven Analayo for a couple of years. Haven't had the time to read his book from cover to cover, but have definitely a fair bit of it.
He also has a few articles for the buddhist studies journal that Ven Prof Dhammajoti publishes from here in HK (technically in Sri Lanka).
In general, I really like his approach, and for the area of early (agama / nikaya) buddhism, I try to take the same approach (though he is quite a few years ahead of me in scholarship!)

This article here is really great. There are now a few agama / nikaya comparative studies, table and charts, and things, but this is one of the first which outlines some basic theories and principles of how to go about them. It goes beyond this textual genre, too, and can be extended - with modifications - elsewhere. So, I think that parts of this are definitely about to make their way into my methodology chapter in my dissertation!

Good scholarship which is critical but not hypercritical, which is able to understand the Dhamma, without being credulous.

Thank you! :)


the second link has links to other members works which are available mainly in german but there are a few english articles as well other than Analayos, I have downloaded one and quite a few of Analayos, it is very interesting stuff there and thank-you for the link, I missed that in my download spree!
on a slightly off topic note I think if a western or european buddhism to form propperly this sort of work needs done, Bhantes book is excelent but I have deliberately forgotten the contents.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby zavk » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:42 pm

Most excellent! I've benefitted greatly from Ven. Analayo's work. Do keep us updated if you manage to get in touch with him and find out more about the history of U Ba Khin's approach to meditation, Ben.
With metta,
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:48 pm

Wow! So much praise for this book! I'm definately going to have another attempt at this book when I get the chance.
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 27, 2009 12:11 am

Thank-you Paññāsikhara
I am looking for my glasses though :stirthepot:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby bodom » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:26 pm

Does anyone know of any links to actual medtitation instruction by Ven. Analayo. I am curious as to what type of meditation Analayo practices and teaches. I believe he may practice in Mahasi's tradition as he notes in this book on the usefulness of noting and labelling in meditation practice.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:40 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:Does anyone know of any links to actual medtitation instruction by Ven. Analayo. I am curious as to what type of practice Analayo practices and teaches. I believe he may practice in Mahasi's tradition as he notes in this book on the usefulness of noting and labelling in meditation practice.

:anjali:


I can't help you there but it isn't in the links i posted earlier in the thread! although he has written a paper on the Goenka technique but I cant directly help.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby bodom » Sun Dec 27, 2009 5:58 pm

I came across a website saying he teaches at a place called Levalla Meditation Centre but i cant find any info on the place.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby cooran » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:25 pm

Hello all,

Try faxing this centre for more information on his current contact numbers:

Levalla Meditation Centre, 160 Dharmashoka Mawatha, Kandy 20000,
Tel. ( 7-12 am ) 08-225471
Fax ( 1- 6 pm ) 08-225471
At northern boundary of the 'Udavattakale Sanctuary' A Meditation Centre connected with Nilambe, mainly for lay-people, 4 kutis also possible for monks Ven.Analayo, a German monk, is in charge of the place. It is best to visit in the morning from 8 am-1pm, after that Ven Analayo retires into the silence of the upper kuti area until next dawn.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:dV ... clnk&gl=au

metta
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:27 pm

Hi all

Manapa wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:Does anyone know of any links to actual medtitation instruction by Ven. Analayo. I am curious as to what type of practice Analayo practices and teaches. I believe he may practice in Mahasi's tradition as he notes in this book on the usefulness of noting and labelling in meditation practice.

:anjali:


I can't help you there but it isn't in the links i posted earlier in the thread! although he has written a paper on the Goenka technique but I cant directly help.


When I was at Vipassana Meditation Centre Blackheath last week, one of the owners of Dhammabooks who recommended and sold me the book Satipatthana: the direct path to realization said that Venerable had been appointed as an assistant teacher to SN Goenka. But after reading some of the book, reading some of his other works and from the discussion here, I am now not so sure. Hopefully its one of the things I can get cleared up if I can get in contact with Bhante.
metta

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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Moggalana » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:42 pm

According to this site, Bhikkhu Analayo is currently working as a private lecturer at the University of Hamburg, doing research work at Dharma Drum Buddhist College (Taiwan), and teaching in Sri Lanka. But there is no direct contact information. His book does certainly sound interesting. It's already on my amazon wishlist, but maybe I'll wait for the German translation.
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:53 pm

Thanks Moggalana
It might be worth waiting for the German translation - I take it that German is your native language?
The book is excellent but information dense and I imagine you'll find it easier to digest in your native language.
Thanks also for Ven Analayo's profile page at Uni of Hamburg and Dharma Drum Buddhist College. Manapa had already posted those earlier but I do appreciate the effort you have gone to to assist me.
metta

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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby bodom » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:50 pm

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:47 am

hi Ben,
It would supprise me if he was a teacher of Goenka, although it wouldn't supprise me if he had in the past! or used goenkas style as a template of sorts to teach his style. I do hope someone finds a pdf of his 'lesson plan' it would be interesting to compare with my own practice (not like I don't need to push further :juggling: )
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby adeh » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:51 am

Hi Ben, just to say that I've read the book four times in the last two years.....it's one of my favorites and a constant reference..I can't wait for him to write something else..with Metta, Adeh.
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Re: Satipatthana: the direct path to realization

Postby Rhino » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:52 pm

Moggalana wrote:...but maybe I'll wait for the German translation.

I'm not sure if you know it. The publisher Beyerlein&Steinschulte announced to publish the book. Firstly it was announced for publishing in may 2009, but it was a few times deferred . It seems to be still work in progress.

Here the link for announcement:
http://www.buddhareden.de/vorschau.htm
With best wishes

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