Hi
Didn't know where to put this, but have just finished reading Johannes Bronkhorst's book Buddhist Teaching in India, and am now on to Greater Magadha.
Just wondering if anybody else had read them or not, and was up for some discussion?
Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
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Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Haven't read and not familiar with him. Some background, maybe?
Are the books worth reading?
Are the books worth reading?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
review of the formertiltbillings wrote:Haven't read and not familiar with him. Some background, maybe?
1. Yes, and 2. appears to be yes.Are the books worth reading?
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
I don't think I'll be buying Greater Magadha at $186 anytime soon, but the other one @ $20 looks possible.Paññāsikhara wrote:review of the formertiltbillings wrote:Haven't read and not familiar with him. Some background, maybe?
1. Yes, and 2. appears to be yes.Are the books worth reading?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Great MaghadaPaññāsikhara wrote:Hi
Didn't know where to put this, but have just finished reading Johannes Bronkhorst's book Buddhist Teaching in India, and am now on to Greater Magadha.
Just wondering if anybody else had read them or not, and was up for some discussion?
Beschreibung
Greater Magadha, roughly the eastern part of the Gangetic plain of northern India, has so far been looked upon as deeply indebted to Brahmanical culture. Religions such as Buddhism and Jainism are thought of as derived, in one way or another, from Vedic religion. This belief is defective in various respects. This book argues for the importance and independence of Greater Magadha as a cultural area until a date close to the beginning of the Common Era. In order to correct the incorrect notions, two types of questions are dealt with: questions pertaining to cultural and religious dependencies, and questions relating to chronology. As a result a modified picture arises that also has a bearing on the further development of Indian culture. [Brill]
unfortunately at around £100 out of my range to buy any time soon, but it does sound very interesting, and reminds me of something I read a while ago, about a place which was basically a hot spot for religious and philosophical teachers, much in the same way Athens market was (cant remember the name of the area in athens, or the place in the article although I think it was in Magadha).
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
see http://gigapedia.com/items/274084/great ... -2--india-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Hi Bhante
I've had time to read the customer review of Greater Magadha on Amazon and it looks fascinating! I would love to be able to afford that book, but as Tilt says, at $US186, its out of my price range. On the other hand, Buddhist teaching in India might be less divorce-inducing!
Thanks for the recommendations Venerable!
metta
BEn
I've had time to read the customer review of Greater Magadha on Amazon and it looks fascinating! I would love to be able to afford that book, but as Tilt says, at $US186, its out of my price range. On the other hand, Buddhist teaching in India might be less divorce-inducing!
Thanks for the recommendations Venerable!
metta
BEn
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Oh yeah, I forgot about the price tag on the big one, it is kind of scary! I've got the Uni library copy for now.
The Teaching one is very reasonable though. I'll maybe put a few highlights here, sometime later.
The Teaching one is very reasonable though. I'll maybe put a few highlights here, sometime later.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Thank you Bhante!
Ben
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- tiltbillings
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
So, how does this compare to Gethin's FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM?Paññāsikhara wrote: have just finished reading Johannes Bronkhorst's book Buddhist Teaching in India
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Hmmm, I haven't read all of Gethin's Foundations, but what I recall,* Gethin's a bit Pali centric, lots more stuff on Buddhaghosa as a kind of default sectarian buddhism teaching. But, that's what we tend to expect from the English, good old Pali Text Society and all that. Bronkhorst uses more European scholarship, lot's of stuff from the Germans and French, which tends to be a bit more balanced. More Sanskrit too, which is his specialty, after all.tiltbillings wrote:So, how does this compare to Gethin's FOUNDATIONS OF BUDDHISM?Paññāsikhara wrote: have just finished reading Johannes Bronkhorst's book Buddhist Teaching in India
Bronkhorst just focuses on "buddhist teachings", and he gives a little explanation in his Methodology, and doesn't deal with who the Buddha was. (Though he never makes any comment doubting his existence, which he could easily do in a sentence or two.)
But in the end, the two kind of cover similar ground.
* If I recall correctly, that is!
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
What is too bad is a lack of access to Japanese sources.Paññāsikhara wrote: Hmmm, I haven't read all of Gethin's Foundations, but what I recall,* Gethin's a bit Pali centric, lots more stuff on Buddhaghosa as a kind of default sectarian buddhism teaching. But, that's what we tend to expect from the English, good old Pali Text Society and all that. Bronkhorst uses more European scholarship, lot's of stuff from the Germans and French, which tends to be a bit more balanced. More Sanskrit too, which is his specialty, after all.
I ordered Bronkhorst's book. Should have it by Weds.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
I've read most of "Buddhist Teachings", thinking about purchasing "Greater Magadha". Bronkhorst is great to read. If you've never read any of his work, you definitely should. He also wrote "The Two Traditions of Meditation in Ancient India", "The Buddha and the Jainas Reconsidered" (part of a back-and-forth with Gombrich), and "The Two Sources of Indian Asceticism", amongst others. "Buddhist Teachings" is an english translation of "Die buddhistische lehre" (2000). Swiss(?) uni professor. Where Gombrich more or less explains oddities in the canon via metaphor/allegory/skill-in-means, Bronkhorst sees considerable third-party influence (particularly via Jainism).
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
Bronkhorst: "We, cautiously, opt for the general principle that the teaching that the acient discourses ascribe to the buddha can indeed be ascribed to him, pages 7-8 BUDDHIST TEACHING IN INDIA.
The book looks intersting and to be worth reading. I am not sure as I have poked through it that is is better than Gethin's better oraganized book that covers the same ground.
The book looks intersting and to be worth reading. I am not sure as I have poked through it that is is better than Gethin's better oraganized book that covers the same ground.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: Bronkhorst: Greater Magadha, & Buddhist Teaching in India
The beginning of Great Magadha which I have read so far seems to also focus a fair bit on the two traditions of meditation in ancient india. He mentions a bit of this in Buddhist Teachings, too. The whole "Narada & Musila" debate to which it is closely related in the internal Buddhist traditions, which people like de la Vallee Poussin, Gombrich, Bodhi, Schmithausen and other great scholars have all had a go at - and often reached very different conclusions! - is a very interesting one.seanpdx wrote:I've read most of "Buddhist Teachings", thinking about purchasing "Greater Magadha". Bronkhorst is great to read. If you've never read any of his work, you definitely should. He also wrote "The Two Traditions of Meditation in Ancient India", "The Buddha and the Jainas Reconsidered" (part of a back-and-forth with Gombrich), and "The Two Sources of Indian Asceticism", amongst others. "Buddhist Teachings" is an english translation of "Die buddhistische lehre" (2000). Swiss(?) uni professor. Where Gombrich more or less explains oddities in the canon via metaphor/allegory/skill-in-means, Bronkhorst sees considerable third-party influence (particularly via Jainism).
Thanks for the quote, viz that other thread...Tilt wrote:Bronkhorst: "We, cautiously, opt for the general principle that the teaching that the acient discourses ascribe to the buddha can indeed be ascribed to him, pages 7-8 BUDDHIST TEACHING IN INDIA.
The book looks intersting and to be worth reading. I am not sure as I have poked through it that is is better than Gethin's better oraganized book that covers the same ground.
He tends to be quite skeptical, he is certainly not in the "true believer" category at all! And, as Sean says, sees much influence here and there. So, I find it interesting that somebody who is that skeptical, still holds that ("cautiously") their was a person called the Buddha, and those ancient discourses are pretty much what he taught.
Like a lot of things, but I still think that having a second (or third, fourth, etc.) opinion from somebody who knows what they are talking about, is always helpful. I though that Bronkhorst's book was also quite well organized, too.
As Norman said: "What hasn't been done, should be done, and what has been done, should be done again." (quote from memory, but should be pretty darn close).
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.