A slightly peripheral observation to add to Manapa's excellent post is that in my experience many Thai people simply don't like red meat, and I guess that may also be the case in other countries such as Sri Lanka...
Mike
the great vegetarian debate
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Re: Beef?
This question naturally leads into the debate over vegetarianism vs. non-vegetarian diets, discussed here:
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The prohibition on certain meats are in regard to what a monastic cannot accept as alms food. Otherwise they abide by the 3 fold rule, accepting what is offered to them. Lay people must choose what to eat.
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=805" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The prohibition on certain meats are in regard to what a monastic cannot accept as alms food. Otherwise they abide by the 3 fold rule, accepting what is offered to them. Lay people must choose what to eat.
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Re: Beef?
good point David
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
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Re: Beef?
also mae kwan im (kwan yin) plays a part in why a lot of thai people dont eat beef.mikenz66 wrote:A slightly peripheral observation to add to Manapa's excellent post is that in my experience many Thai people simply don't like red meat, and I guess that may also be the case in other countries such as Sri Lanka...
Mike
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
Re: Beef?
I agree. I've met some Thais who don't eat beef (cow, buffalo meat), and I believe they're originally from the Chinese ethnic group, and are influenced by the Kwan-Yin sect.jcsuperstar wrote: also mae kwan im (kwan yin) plays a part in why a lot of thai people dont eat beef.
You may like to read an interesting article on the Wikipedia "Taboo food and drink", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo_food_and_drink
Extract:
"... Some ethnic Chinese may also refrain from eating cow meat, because many of them feel that it is wrong to eat an animal that was so useful in agriculture. Some Chinese Buddhists discourage the consumption of beef, although it is not considered taboo. A similar taboo can be seen among Sinhalese Buddhists, who consider it to be ungrateful to kill the animal whose milk and labour provides livelihoods to many Sinhalese people."
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Re: Beef?
Thanks for the info on Avalokitesvara in Thailand, many often overlook all these sorts of teachings and beliefs in SE asia, on a text book assumption that they are "Theravada countries". Things are seldom so simple.suanck wrote:I agree. I've met some Thais who don't eat beef (cow, buffalo meat), and I believe they're originally from the Chinese ethnic group, and are influenced by the Kwan-Yin sect.jcsuperstar wrote: also mae kwan im (kwan yin) plays a part in why a lot of thai people dont eat beef.
The general point about Chinese is basically correct. In trad Chinese culture, the ox if for plowing the fields, you don't around killing and eating your only tractor! The consumption of dairy produce and red meats, which are becoming more and more popular in modern PRoC, are strongly influenced from the west. It is "food affluence". McD and KFC being classic examples - they are regarded as kind of high class eating! :blink:You may like to read an interesting article on the Wikipedia "Taboo food and drink", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo_food_and_drink
Extract:
"... Some ethnic Chinese may also refrain from eating cow meat, because many of them feel that it is wrong to eat an animal that was so useful in agriculture. Some Chinese Buddhists discourage the consumption of beef, although it is not considered taboo. A similar taboo can be seen among Sinhalese Buddhists, who consider it to be ungrateful to kill the animal whose milk and labour provides livelihoods to many Sinhalese people."
Suan
However, in that Wiki quote, I quite disagree that "Some Chinese Buddhists discourage the consumption of beef, although it is not considered taboo." Chinese Buddhists place a very high value on vegetarianism. Although not all lay buddhists eat meat, all the monastics do, and thus almost all Chinese lay Buddhists consider that being vegetarian is definitely what should be done. It has kind of become de facto as important as the five precepts for maybe half the Chinese buddhist population. So, yes, they basically "forbid the consumption of beef, and any other animal flesh, and also consider it a kind of taboo".
Regards the Thais and Sri Lankans, I wonder if also, despite the fact that they are Buddhist and not Hindu, the sheer force and influence of general Indian culture on the entirety of SE Asia (from Afghanistan all the way down to Indonesia) plays a major factor here? Not to mention the situation as per the Chinese - the ox is the traditional family farm tractor, not a produce animal.
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Re: Beef?
Although the vast majority of Burmese are not vegetarians, in general they do not eat beef. The reasons are that cattle are used in agriculture for ploughing, for transporting goods, and for threshing grain. It is regarded as despicable ingratitude to kill and eat your own benefactor.
See Cow Dhamma by the late Venerable Ledi Sayādaw.
See Cow Dhamma by the late Venerable Ledi Sayādaw.
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Re: Beef?
Great link, Bhante!, much appreciated.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Although the vast majority of Burmese are not vegetarians, in general they do not eat beef. The reasons are that cattle are used in agriculture for ploughing, for transporting goods, and for threshing grain. It is regarded as despicable ingratitude to kill and eat your own benefactor.
See Cow Dhamma by the late Venerable Ledi Sayādaw.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: Huifeng's Prajnacara Blog.
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Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
If I have the arrogance to dare call myself a worthy follower of the Buddhadhamma (which these days I hesitate to do) I would say I follow Theravada teachings. I will not eat animals. I don't agonize over the ethics of it or think about why or why not. I just prefer not to do it.
But I do like this:
J
PS: As a former moderator of the Vegetarian Forum of e-sangha, I have a word of advice for the Admins of Dhamma Wheel: Don't give in to temptation to create a vegetarian forum unless you want a foretaste of what Avici Hell is like.
J
But I do like this:
J
PS: As a former moderator of the Vegetarian Forum of e-sangha, I have a word of advice for the Admins of Dhamma Wheel: Don't give in to temptation to create a vegetarian forum unless you want a foretaste of what Avici Hell is like.
J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
I went pure Veg in the 80's, when all available science pointed towards it as healthy.
But my experience with exercise later on proved that I needed protein--soy is not good enough--and had to admit I had been wrong.
Exercise is not a topic that thrills the hearts of many, so I'll refrain from that. But there is a lot of science out now suggesting good fats (some from animal protein) are essential for optimum health. I'm convinced now, and yes, after "years of research", have concluded it is best to eat meat (although I advise avoiding processed stuff and garbage from fast food joints), and keep your simple carbs down to a minimum.
More can be found at westonaprice.org.
Worth your time!
But my experience with exercise later on proved that I needed protein--soy is not good enough--and had to admit I had been wrong.
Exercise is not a topic that thrills the hearts of many, so I'll refrain from that. But there is a lot of science out now suggesting good fats (some from animal protein) are essential for optimum health. I'm convinced now, and yes, after "years of research", have concluded it is best to eat meat (although I advise avoiding processed stuff and garbage from fast food joints), and keep your simple carbs down to a minimum.
More can be found at westonaprice.org.
Worth your time!
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Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
Eh? I'm a weightlifter and have been for a long time. Lots of vegetarian and even vegan athletes, including bodybuilders. Of course, this is one of those topics hotly debated. Seems as though some individual thrive and some do not.
J
J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?
Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
Indeed, I am. Lacto-ovo vegetarian. Lately, I haven't been eating cheeses (because so many of the cheeses you find in les supermarches contain calf-based rennets), and I actually like the taste of soy milk more than cow's milk. I avoid meat to remove myself from the consumer demand that informs the meat industry's acts of environmental damage, animal abuse and social injustice.
I do not want my house to be walled in on sides and my windows to be stuffed. I want the cultures of all the lands to be blown about my house as freely as possible. But I refuse to be blown off my feet by any.- Gandhi
With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.- Snp. 1.3
With persistence aroused for the highest goal's attainment, with mind unsmeared, not lazy in action, firm in effort, with steadfastness & strength arisen, wander alone like a rhinoceros.
Not neglecting seclusion, absorption, constantly living the Dhamma in line with the Dhamma, comprehending the danger in states of becoming, wander alone like a rhinoceros.- Snp. 1.3
Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
I was a vegetarian for a long time. Now I am not. partly on medical advice. Yesterday for Christmas dinner I enjoyed the roast beef of old England from a herd of organically certified and humanely reared cattle.
Re: Beef?
Thai people generally love eating beef. Korean BBQ restaurants are very popular now! Pork and Chicken are more common because of the price, but beef is still up there.
I haven't heard of anyone avoiding beef except those kwanyin followers and vegetarians.
I've also had a few beef curries in Myanmar.
Bankei.
I haven't heard of anyone avoiding beef except those kwanyin followers and vegetarians.
I've also had a few beef curries in Myanmar.
Bankei.
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Bankei
Bankei
Re: Poll: Are you vegetarian/vegan?
I do not agree with the arguement that refraining from eating meat is unhealthy, I know of body builders who are vegetarian and atheletes, being vegetarian doesn't mean a complete lack of protein, there are many harmless sources. And even if refraining from meat is unhealthy I would rather sacrifice my optimum health than contribute to an industry that promotes killing and suffering in animals.alan wrote:I went pure Veg in the 80's, when all available science pointed towards it as healthy.
But my experience with exercise later on proved that I needed protein--soy is not good enough--and had to admit I had been wrong.
Exercise is not a topic that thrills the hearts of many, so I'll refrain from that. But there is a lot of science out now suggesting good fats (some from animal protein) are essential for optimum health. I'm convinced now, and yes, after "years of research", have concluded it is best to eat meat (although I advise avoiding processed stuff and garbage from fast food joints), and keep your simple carbs down to a minimum.
More can be found at westonaprice.org.
Worth your time!
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn