How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

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bodom
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How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by bodom »

How necessary is Abhidhamma study to ones practice? Specifically to a householders practice? Personally for me it seems excessive. It seems to be for the scholars. Maybe i am completely wrong though? I have studied the Nikayas and have really come to the conclusion that book knowledge does not equal wisdom. If book knowledge was all that was needed for enlightenment i would have been there already. Ajahn Chah reiterates this fact over and over in his teachings. For myself i want to experience the peace that the Buddhas path leads to and not just read about it. Is the Abhidhamma for the scholars only? Is there something to be found in it that i have not already learned from the Sutta Pitaka? Will it show me the way to enlightenment anymore than the Suttas will? Should i add more to my already full hands with the Sutta Pitaka? Thanks.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Ceisiwr
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by Ceisiwr »

I dont think you need the abhidhamma in order to reach nibbana. The essential teachings for this are in the other parts of the Pali Canon and in my opinion particually the SN and MN which i feel are more enlightening than the abhidhamma. To me the abhidhamma just expands slightly on the buddhas dhamma with the intent of an intellectual understanding of the dhamma.

Ultimately though this is just my opinion, it is for you to decide, i would recomend you read it and then contemplate if what you are reading is helping you reach cesstation or not. If you find it helpful in doing this then use it, if not then leave it.

:namaste:
Last edited by Ceisiwr on Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mikenz66
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi BBB,

I think that how useful it is to you depends to a certain extent what your practise is and how your teachers teach. If your teachers use a lot of Abhidhamma concepts (e.g. they talk about cittas, sense doors, etc) then it's less confusing if you have some idea of the basics. I see it as a more detailed way of classifying experience, an elaboration of the classifications in terms of elements, khandhas, sense bases, dependent origination steps, etc, that appear in the Suttas.

I've only studied summaries such as Abhidhamma in Daily Life by Nina Van Gorkom
http://mail.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/nina ... bhi-00.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.zolag.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (for PDF).
This introduction:
The Abhidhamma in Practice by N.K.G. Mendis
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el322.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
also looks useful.

Metta
Mike
Last edited by mikenz66 on Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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cooran
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by cooran »

Hello bbb, all,

The Abhidhamma is part of the Pali Canon. It is the third basket of the Tipitaka.
This excerpt from the book by Ven. Nyanaponika may be of assistance.

The Abhidhamma Philosophy ~ Its estmation in the past and its value for the present
from the book Abhidhamma Studies: Researches in Buddhist Psychology by Ven. Nyanaponika Thera

~High Esteem of Abhidhamma in Buddhist Tradition
~The Abhidhamma as System and Method
~Clarification of Terms
~Analysis of Consciousness
~The Anatta Doctrine
~Abhidhamma and Meditation
~Abhidhamma: Requirement for the Teachers of Dhamma
~Evaluation of Abhidhamma & Question of its Authenticity
~Concluding Remarks and a Warning
http://www.buddhanet.net/abhidh01.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
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Jason
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by Jason »

bodom_bad_boy,
bodom_bad_boy wrote:How necessary is Abhidhamma study to ones practice? Specifically to a householders practice? Personally for me it seems excessive. It seems to be for the scholars. Maybe i am completely wrong though? I have studied the Nikayas and have really come to the conclusion that book knowledge does not equal wisdom. If book knowledge was all that was needed for enlightenment i would have been there already. Ajahn Chah reiterates this fact over and over in his teachings. For myself i want to experience the peace that the Buddhas path leads to and not just read about it. Is the Abhidhamma for the scholars only? Is there something to be found in it that i have not already learned from the Sutta Pitaka? Will it show me the way to enlightenment anymore than the Suttas will? Should i add more to my already full hands with the Sutta Pitaka? Thanks.
Apparently it's not all that necessary seeing as how the Buddha didn't bother to teach it to human beings. As the story goes, the Buddha originally taught the "higher Dhamma" to his mother and the other devas in Tavatimsa heaven. After each day of teaching, however, the Buddha would return to the human realm for alms (I guess the food wasn't that good in Tavatimsa heaven). The explanation of how we came to have it is that after his meal, the Buddha would give Sariputta a synopsis of the teaching given that day, which he would, in turn, would teach to his 500 hundred disciples. Of course, opinions vary as to whether the Abhidhamma is necessary. Some people feel that since we are in "degenerate times," the study of Abhidhamma is absolutely essential. There are others, however, who feel differently. As for myself, I think that the Abhidhamma is interesting and worth studying, but I would not go so far as to say that it is necessary.

Jason
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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cooran
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by cooran »

Elohim said: Apparently it's not all that necessary seeing as how the Buddha didn't bother to teach it to human beings. As the story goes, the Buddha originally taught the "higher Dhamma" to his mother and the other devas in Tavatimsa heaven. After each day of teaching, however, the Buddha would return to the human realm for alms (I guess the food wasn't that good in Tavatimsa heaven). The explanation of how we came to have it is that after his meal, the Buddha would give Sariputta a synopsis of the teaching given that day, which he would, in turn, would teach to his 500 hundred disciples. Of course, opinions vary as to whether the Abhidhamma is necessary. Some people feel that since we are in "degenerate times," the study of Abhidhamma is absolutely essential. There are others, however, who feel differently. As for myself, I think that the Abhidhamma is interesting and worth studying, but I would not go so far as to say that it is necessary.
Hello Elohim,

Your choice of words is interesting - but, as we are in Classical Mahavihara Theravada folder, I'm wondering if your comments are appropriate?

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings Chris, all,

Since the topic seems to be seeking to elicit a wide range of opinions, I'm relocating it to the General Theravada discussion forum.

Thanks everyone.

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by Element »

bodom_bad_boy wrote:How necessary is Abhidhamma study to ones practice?
BBB

Offering my opinion, studying Abidhamma is a total waste of time. Ajahn Chah did not study it nor Ajahn Buddhadasa.

If you wish to experience the peace of the Buddhist path, it is important to be grounded in sila. Second, is to develop samadhi. Samadhi is rooted in letting go and abandoning and being free from defiled mind states. This unified consciousness, is the foundation for practise. As Buddha instructed Bahiya in a few sentences: "When seeing, just see; when hearing, just hear; when knowing, just know. There will be no here, no there, no this, no that, no coming or no going. Just this is the cessation of dukkha". This is the foundation for deeping practise.

Best wishes

Element
Last edited by Element on Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by jcsuperstar »

Element wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:How necessary is Abhidhamma study to ones practice?
BBB

Offering my opinion, studying Abidhamma is a total waste of time. Ajahn Chah did not study it nor Ajahn Buddhadasa.

If you wish to experience the peace of the Buddhist path, it is important to be grounded in sila. Second, is to develop samadhi. Samadhi is rooted in letting go and abandoning and being free from defiled mind states. This unified consciousness, is the foundation for practise. As Buddha instructed Bahiya in a few sentences: "When seeing, just see; when hearing, just hear; when knowing, just know. There will be no here, there, this, that, coming or going. Just this is the cessation of dukkha". This is the foundation for deeping practise.

Best wishes

Element
isnt the training 3fold?

but i was going to bring up that LP chah and buddhadasa both didnt seem to find it nessary. though i wouldnt call it a total waste of time. what little i have read has helped. it presents the dhamma in a different way than the suttas and this may be better for some people.
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Heavenstorm
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by Heavenstorm »

Element wrote:Offering my opinion, studying Abidhamma is a total waste of time. Ajahn Chah did not study it nor Ajahn Buddhadasa.
Not necessary.....perhaps but waste of time???? Come on, where do you get this from?
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bodom
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by bodom »

Thanks for the replys.

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by piotr »

Hi,

Here is a quote from Ajahn Chah's Key to the Liberation,
  • Studying the Abhidhamma can be beneficial, but you have to do it without getting attached to the books. The correct way to study is to make it clear in the mind that you are studying for the realisation of truth and to transcend suffering. These days there are many different teachers of vipassana and many different methods to choose from, but actually, the practice of vipassana isn't such an easy thing to do. You can't go and do it just like that; it has to develop out of a strong foundation in sila. Try it out. Moral line, training rules and guidelines for behaviour are a necessary part of the practice – if your actions and speech are untrained and undisciplined, it's like skipping over part of magga and you won't meet with success. Some people say you don't need to practise samatha, you can go straight into vipassana, but people who speak like that tend to be lazy and want to get results without expanding any effort. They say that keeping sila isn't important to practice, but really, practising sila in itself is already quite difficult and not something you can do casually. If you were to skip the sila, then of course the whole practice would seem comfortable and convenient. It would be nice if whenever the practice involved a bit of difficulty you could just skip over it – everybody likes to avoid the difficult bits.
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bodom
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by bodom »

piotr wrote:Hi,

Here is a quote from Ajahn Chah's Key to the Liberation,
  • Studying the Abhidhamma can be beneficial, but you have to do it without getting attached to the books. The correct way to study is to make it clear in the mind that you are studying for the realisation of truth and to transcend suffering. These days there are many different teachers of vipassana and many different methods to choose from, but actually, the practice of vipassana isn't such an easy thing to do. You can't go and do it just like that; it has to develop out of a strong foundation in sila. Try it out. Moral line, training rules and guidelines for behaviour are a necessary part of the practice – if your actions and speech are untrained and undisciplined, it's like skipping over part of magga and you won't meet with success. Some people say you don't need to practise samatha, you can go straight into vipassana, but people who speak like that tend to be lazy and want to get results without expanding any effort. They say that keeping sila isn't important to practice, but really, practising sila in itself is already quite difficult and not something you can do casually. If you were to skip the sila, then of course the whole practice would seem comfortable and convenient. It would be nice if whenever the practice involved a bit of difficulty you could just skip over it – everybody likes to avoid the difficult bits.
Excellent! Ajahn Chah's words are always what i seem to need to hear. Thank you piotr! Ajahn Chah! :bow: :bow: :bow:

:namaste:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Jesse Smith
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by Jesse Smith »

I've kind of avoided exposing myself to Aghidhamma teachings. I can see how I would take what I read and plant it as a preconceived notion in my head. Then, during meditation, I might find myself looking for signs or indications of these preconceived notions, reading into what was going on, instead of just seeing things as they are.
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mikenz66
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Re: How necessary is Abhidhamma study?

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Jesse,

Did you manage to also avoid hearing the teaching that all of what you are seeing when you meditate is Anicca, Dukkha, and Anatta?

:meditate:

Metta
Mike
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