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"Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism? - Page 5 - Dhamma Wheel

"Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Cittasanto
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:12 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

seanpdx
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby seanpdx » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:13 pm


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:15 pm


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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:18 pm


yuuki
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby yuuki » Tue Dec 29, 2009 9:22 pm

Sorry if this is off-topic. I feel compelled to respond to the idea of emptiness, and the general attitude of its discussion.

I think emptiness falls into the class of ideas that are (intentionally?) confusing enough to sound "deep" and therefore to be lumped in with Buddhism.

I never see the Buddha take a position on metaphysical matters like this. If you read the suttas do you seriously think that the same Buddha would say something to substantiate "In terms of not-self and emptiness, I'm unshakeable. Except that they're empty too..." ?

There may be a place for apparent paradox somewhere far along the path, but what about the targets that are perfectly reasonable, not confusing in the slightest, and within reach right now? How many here have perfected the brahmaviharas? How many people here have perfected the paramis? Why are people drawn to questions that lead nowhere, questions that were specifically rejected by the Buddha in the traditional form (answering neither true, nor false, nor both, nor neither) when there are so many real, skillful qualities yet to be developed?

Does it seem like someone accomplished in viriya (effort) would talk about nothingness? Does it seem like a monk exercising the four exertions ("There is the case where a monk generates desire, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds & exerts his intent for ... [the four exertions] ...") at the same time thinks that all paths are empty?

To me the Theravada tradition is a sanctuary within Buddhism where things are allowed to make sense, where meaningful work is allowed to be done, and where we're allowed to take real reality as the working hypothetical basis for our practices.

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Ben
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Ben » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:17 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:35 pm


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acinteyyo
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:43 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Ben
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Ben » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:51 pm

Nice post acinteyyo!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:56 pm

Last edited by Cafael Dust on Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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Cittasanto
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:58 pm

:anjali: :bow: :anjali: :bow: :anjali: :bow: :anjali: :bow: :anjali:
wish there was a Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu emoticon for all these posts.

Image
Last edited by Cittasanto on Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Cafael Dust
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:59 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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tiltbillings
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:00 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:01 pm


Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:06 pm

Everything is love. You can't apply emptiness to the ground of being; it's the most actual ultimate truth there is.

Conceptually, yes, love is empty, if you're talking about shades or motivations of love, intellectualising it in any way.
Last edited by Cafael Dust on Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Cafael Dust
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:11 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:18 pm


seanpdx
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby seanpdx » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:22 pm


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tiltbillings
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Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:22 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:23 pm



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