Question about Dhammapada verse 89

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Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby bodom » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:10 pm

I am currently studying John Ross Carters Dhammapada translation. In verse 89 which reads:

Whose mind is fully well cultivated in the factors of
enlightenment,
Who, without clinging, delight in the rejection of grasping,
Lustrous ones, who have destroyed intoxicants,
They have, in (this) world, attained Nibaana.

In the line by line translation there is a note to the last verse:

They have, in (this) world, attained Nibbana

which reads:

In this world of khandas, and so forth, they have entered into Nibbana fully-that is, (1) "with substrata remaining" from the time of attaining Arahantship, on account of having exhausted the whirl of defilements; and (2) "without substrata remaining" at the cessation of the final (flicker of) thought, (at the end of life), on account of having exhausted the whirl of the khandas. Thus they have entered Nibbana fully by both (aspects of) Nibbana. The meaning is: (they are) gone to the state of undefinability like (the flame of) a lamp, without fuel.

In this note what does the word "substrata" refer to? I am hoping Venerable Dhammanado or someone well versed can shed some light on this for me. Thanks!

:namaste:
Last edited by bodom on Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby piotr » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby bodom » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:12 pm

Let me see if i get this. So the "substrata" (carters translation) and "fuel" (Thanissaro's translation) refer to the five aggregates. In the first case - "with substrata remaining" from the time of attaining Arahantship, on account of having exhausted the whirl of defilements; means that the "fires" of greed, hatred and delusion are absent while the khandas are still present. In the second case "without substrata remaining" at the cessation of the final (flicker of) thought, (at the end of life), on account of having exhausted the whirl of the khandas; means when the Arahant passes away there is no longer any aggregates here or anywhere else. Am i understanding this correctly?

:namaste:
Last edited by bodom on Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby piotr » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:17 pm

Hi,

Yes, I think so. Except that the first case is called "with substrata/fuel remaining" :smile:
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby bodom » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:19 pm

Yes you are absolutely right. I misprinted the first sentence. Thats what was throwing me off. Thank you!

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby Jason » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:51 pm

For further reference, you may want to compare that translation with Daw Mya Tin's translation w/commentary.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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Re: Question about Dhammapada verse 89

Postby bodom » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Elohim wrote:For further reference, you may want to compare that translation with Daw Mya Tin's translation w/commentary.


Thank you for the link Elohim.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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