TOS 1

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TOS 1

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:31 pm

Hi Mods & Admins :bow: (lol)
regarding the meta-discussion in http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3064&start=180#p44793 (linked to the post which sparked this thought)
I had a look on the the TOS to have a look at what it says!
Members are expected to self-moderate, being mindful of the adage that 'behaviour breeds behaviour'. Mutual respect and friendliness should be the basis of all interactions. For the Buddha's teaching on this see the Saleyyaka Sutta. The views presented by Dhamma Wheel members are not necessarily the views of the administrators or moderators. If you find anything objectionable, let the admin or mods know using the Report Post function and we'll look into it.


maybe it would be worth pointing out (as an addition) that although some threads and posts may appear heated that this may not always be the case due to ways different members communicate, or simply the different members conventions?
as Dan rightly points this can put people off the forum or Buddhism but (hoping people read the TOS first) could give them forewarning so to speak.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Dan74 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:45 pm

The added complication on an online board such as this, is that people come from different cultures and have different notions of what constitutes civil exchange. You can't please everyone and I don't expect anyone to change their manner but perhaps people can keep this (above) in mind when they post and maybe occasionally get a partner or a friend to peruse for some feedback?

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Re: TOS 1

Postby Fede » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:15 pm

Both valid and salient points.
However, you have absolutely nooo idea just how much faith I have in the Moderators here to exercise restraint, balance and impartiality.
I've known most for a long time (not saying that either of you haven't!) but I know enough about them personally to completely trust their judgement and decisions in any given situation.
That's not to say I would always agree with them.
I too am a Moderator on other forums, and I fully appreciate what a complex minefield Moderating can be....
Sometimes decisions to be taken are not always comfortable, and neither might they be popular.
But they do not moderate from a comfort zone, neither do they do it for popularirty.
they simply do it for all the Right Reasons.
I am fully confident of that.
so I really do trust them to be able to distinguish between cultural differences, and the difficulties faced when communicating in a uniquely written medium...
And should I get moderated ever, I would fully expect the Moderators to have done so for valid reasons. In short, I'd probably deserve it.
So whilst I might feel like arguing my corner, the overwhelming reason for moderation, is because a guideline got breached....

So, that said, I would strongly advise any new member to peruse the TOS.
It's politeness, after all....
You wouldn't book into a hotel and fully expect to act entirely as you might wish,.... so why would you enter a forum with that frame of mind?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Re: TOS 1

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:28 pm

Fede wrote:. . . I fully appreciate what a complex minefield Moderating can be. . .

Pretty much. In a thread that I am heavily involved as a partipant, I will likely not act as a moderator (unless something is so egregious it cannot be ignored). The "report" button can help as can PMs. Obviously I am part of the subject here, given the exchanges in the whatchamacallit thread which have given rise to this discussion. In my exchanges I try to keep an even tone, though I may persistent in exploring a point (which may not be to the liking of all who may be reading along). Because I can be putz and sometimes a shmuck, I would welcome feedback via PM or the "report" button if anyone thinks I have crossed the line.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Dan74 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:50 pm

Fair enough. Will keep that in mind for the future.

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Re: TOS 1

Postby Fede » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:42 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Fede wrote:. . . Because I can be putz and sometimes a shmuck, I would welcome feedback via PM or the "report" button if anyone thinks I have crossed the line.


This is all very well...
we can all be putzes (putzums? Putzii...?) and schmucks. it comes as part of the package of being a sentient human being, and I'm sure must figure in one of the realms of existence....!

The invitation to members to 'welcome feedback' if they're of the opinion a line has been crossed, whilst constructive in some ways, can open its own gateway to a minefield in others....
the problem with that is, that as a Moderator, this denotes that not only are we willing to be open to criticism, but we're also willing to have our positions and decisions questioned.
I learnt a long time ago, from my mentor/boss/forum founder, that the bottom line is, bad manners, discourtesies and undignified behaviour is frowned upon. as is foul language, name-calling, insulting and trolling/flaming. Buddhism aside, these are the standard practises we believe people should conform to, when engaging in dialogue and discussion.

Now.

Whilst every Moderator has their own yardstick (eg.,I personally feel foul and obscene language has no place on a Buddhist forum, other Moderators feel such verbal displays are part of social verbal interaction, and are permissible up to a point) the fact of the matter is, a Moderator has a lonely line to travel, and a difficult job to do. Quite aside from everything else, they're further expected to 'set an example'.
So, TBH, the last thing they need is PM upon PM telling them "Errr, I don't think I agree with you there...." or even, "What the heck were you thinking??"

As far as I am concerned, a Moderator's decision is final, and I abide by that. I broach no argument, no discussion and no back-and-forth dialogue. the decision is one I can think about and mull over. If I think in hindsight I was wrong, I'll either modify, and/or discuss it with the pertinent member - and them only.
I will never countermand another mod's decision, though again, I might discuss it privately.
I make my decisions in as an unbiased and neutral way as I can, considering the socially acceptable parameters of behaviour.
And although in the beginning, I was exactly of the same opinion as Tilt, with regard to feedback, I've been a Moderator for long enough now to trust that what I do, is done with the best of intentions, and I'm afraid people will just have to take it on the chin.
I've never been tempted to abuse my position, and I know that if I were to do so, Chief Honcho would let me know - in no uncertain terms - that I'd overstepped the mark.
to date, thankfully, that has not happened.
so Tilt, be confident, and relax.
as far as I'm concerned, it's all good, and grist to the mill.
And all crap passes and fades and is forgotten after a while anyway, so don't sweat it.
I'm behind you all the way.
And I'm not aiming fer yer butt...... :console:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:07 pm

Hi Fede, & tilt
Its not a suggestion that the moderators or TOS are too strict or lax or a criticism of and moderators moderation, I personally am satisfied with the moderation here and the TOS looseness, if that is the word to use, it is more as a heads up suggestion not needing to be specifically part of TOS1 a P.S., even, for new members who may not be familiar with on-line communication in forums or members here than as a moderation standard.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Fede » Mon Dec 28, 2009 4:28 pm

Having now followed the link in your OP (Foolish of me, I know... I shoulda dun it sooner) I can see where certain issues might have arisen.

Notwithstanding the difficulties posed in interpretation of the meanings and intentions of people's posts, purely because all we have to go on, is the written word, and no inflection, expression, etc., etc., etc...., I think sometimes their tone and intention slaps us in the face like a damp kipper, and their intended meaning and intonation is abundantly clear.

Occasionally, a well-placed reminder of TOS - even in the middle of a thread, and even within a discussion where a Mod is participating - is both appropriate and suitable.
And frankly, whilst I will tolerate the occasional barbed and personal comment aimed at me (comes with the package deal) I am less inclined to tolerate it when aimed at others, who have no such recourse to self defence as I have.

Bet thatz jest me.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Mawkish1983 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:35 pm

tiltbillings wrote:I would welcome feedback via PM or the "report" button if anyone thinks I have crossed the line.

I just want to say, I think you (and the rest of the team) do an excellent job. I understand and appreciate the difficulties face. With regards to the specific "did the historical Buddha exist" discussion amongst the "why pick Theravada" thread, I myself am interested in reading from the very sources you [tilt] have been pushing to be presented. I appreciate that you [tilt] didn't back down and, in my opinion, have behaved professionally. Some topics (the one in question, for example) can be tricky to discuss sensatively, but misinformation must be dealt with lest wrong views form!

Thank you tilt and all moderators and admin for your hard work.
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:19 pm

Mawkish1983 wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:I would welcome feedback via PM or the "report" button if anyone thinks I have crossed the line.

I just want to say, I think you (and the rest of the team) do an excellent job. I understand and appreciate the difficulties face. With regards to the specific "did the historical Buddha exist" discussion amongst the "why pick Theravada" thread, I myself am interested in reading from the very sources you [tilt] have been pushing to be presented. I appreciate that you [tilt] didn't back down and, in my opinion, have behaved professionally. Some topics (the one in question, for example) can be tricky to discuss sensatively, but misinformation must be dealt with lest wrong views form!

Thank you tilt and all moderators and admin for your hard work.


:cookoo:

:stirthepot:

seriously though I agree!
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: TOS 1

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:29 pm

Fede wrote:
The invitation to members to 'welcome feedback' if they're of the opinion a line has been crossed, whilst constructive in some ways, can open its own gateway to a minefield in others....
Sure; however, note I said via PM or the "report" option, which then forgoes the public spectacle, and this goes for others as well. Of course there is the possibility of a "prvt war" being started from that, The report option probably is the better option in that it is dealt with by the team.

the problem with that is, that as a Moderator, this denotes that not only are we willing to be open to criticism, but we're also willing to have our positions and decisions questioned.
I am not talking about moderator decisions, I am talking conduct as a participant, which most people can distinguish between (I hope).
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: TOS 1

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:34 pm

Also, I want to thank you all for your concern and your feedback. It is heartening that you care enough for DhammaWheel that you are willing to take the time to help make this a good place to come to for discussion.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Private Messages

Postby alan » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:32 pm

First I'll have to ask you all to forgive my complete lameness; for many reasons I've spent a few years away from computers. I originally rejected them, but now I admit that was dumb. It's a long story. Ok, I'm a dope at this. I've been in a cave. Not really, but you get the point. Anyway, my question is how to do the quote unquote thing and how to do pm.
thanks and please forgive me!
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Cittasanto » Tue Dec 29, 2009 4:50 pm

hi Alan each user has a PM button under there name in the posts you just click that to PM someone!

to quote someone you click quote on the righthand side of the post you want to quote.

if quoting several posts you can highlight and copy each part of the posts you want to quote and then paste into your response as normal then highlight the quoted section and press quote just above where you type on the left hand side, although you may want to open up a new window with the thread posts displayed
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: TOS 1

Postby catmoon » Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:07 am

Manapa wrote:hi Alan each user has a PM button under there name in the posts you just click that to PM someone!

to quote someone you click quote on the righthand side of the post you want to quote.

if quoting several posts you can highlight and copy each part of the posts you want to quote and then paste into your response as normal then highlight the quoted section and press quote just above where you type on the left hand side, although you may want to open up a new window with the thread posts displayed


Oh that's much better than what I have been doing. I've been entering quote tags manually! Tnx.
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Re: TOS 1

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:42 am

if you are quoting someone a sutta or something you cant press the quote button for if you make the first quote box look like this, when doing it that way, you would get
bob wrote: shenron


[quote="bob"]
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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