"Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:33 pm

Yes, Manapa, mind is the ground of being, mind is God, mind is nibbana, when perceived correctly.

To say there is nothing separating the everyday from nibbana is like saying there are no waves on the ocean. A wave is nothing permanent or essential, it is the motion of water; at no moment is there anything that can be said to be a wave, there is only water, itself made up of waves of motion or vibration, as is all matter, though there is nothing in motion but motion itself. If we see consciousness in this light, when movement ceases, there is nibbana. It is what is beneath or beyond movement in my model, what is left when the waves flatline, it is what is irreducible.

We examine the movement of consciousness through vispassana meditation. Through examination, motion ceases of its own accord, not because we still it, but because we realise it is empty, that there is no such movement. Movement can only occur in relative terms; realising the ground of being is to realise that from the perspective of the whole, there is no movement. Then there is only the ease of falling in love.

This doesn't mean anything changes though - a lot of people imagine that everything goes white and merges in nibbana, but that's kind of missing the point. Experiences like this can be had, but eventually we learn not to cling to them or see them as special.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:02 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:08 pm

Cafael,
please don't interpret outside of the context used.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:21 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:24 pm

Manapa, please be specific. In my experience broad criticisms are very effective at winning debates but not so effective at approaching knowledge.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:27 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:32 pm


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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:36 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:38 pm


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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:49 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:50 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:02 pm


Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

alan
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby alan » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:26 pm

Cafael, your posts are starting to worry me. They have long since passed rational and are starting to get prophetic.

Cafael Dust
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:36 pm

Oh dear... well in that case as I say above, better to start listening. I have requested explanations of some terms from a Theravada perspective, and I think that'll be useful to see where I'm going wrong in my interpretation.
Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:40 pm


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christopher:::
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby christopher::: » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:44 pm

Hey friends,

Seems like there's a cyclic deja vu quality to this discussion. :tongue: Hope everyone is well, and that greater familiarity with our mysterious "luminous" minds (as they are) awaits each of us, in the new year...

:anjali:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:52 pm

What luminous minds ? Where do they occur in the Khandas ? Unless we are Non Returners our citta is obscured by kilesas.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Cittasanto
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Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:56 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Cafael Dust
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:55 pm

Re: "Luminous mind" was Question Regarding God and Agnosticism?

Postby Cafael Dust » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:58 pm

Not twice, not three times, not once,
the wheel is turning.


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