Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:43 am

catmoon wrote:
Annabel wrote:It just crossed my mind.

In case we agree, that men in general, -with the exception of those Buddhist males who read this, of course,- tend to be more aggressive, tend to become physically violent more often , abusive, are more forceful, and women tend to be softer, more actively compassionate than men, then isn't a lot of spiritual cultivation about developing a bit more of the 'female' side in ourselves, the softer and more sensitive side?




This looks to me like an attempt to buttress the idea that females are superior and "own" spirituality. Very unhealthy.


It l looks to me right here that you read other intentions into my topic than intended by me, perhaps you will find projections came into the way, don't know...? :thinking:
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby phil » Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:57 am

Hi all

Sorry if someone's already referred to this (don't see a link) but here's a great sutta about not falling into the bondage represented by one's sexual identity.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,

Phil
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:00 am

Chris wrote:Good post Kim. :smile:

Why concentrate on masculine or feminine?

What difference does being a woman make
When the mind is well-composed,
When knowledge is proceeding on,
When one rightly sees into Dhamma?
Indeed for whom the question arises:
"Am I a man or a woman?"
Or, "Am I even something at all?"
To them alone is Mara fit to talk!
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .olen.html

metta
Chris


Hello, Chris, thank you, your contributions are priceless, your knowledge vast.

Here, however, my point here was a bit different, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. Sorry.

I tried to say it with this:

PS; I am aware of the sutta where 'form' is the issue and that you're stuck when you begin to classify...


But I'm inundated with work and couldn't specify anymore precisely, also relying on the Buddhists here to "get it" right. Hard task, apparently.

Let me try again, but if it's pointless to you guys, that's ok too.

My approach is more of a political amd societal nature, just like we discussed the problems of of cows kept in lactation, pollution, elections, and our role in that...

So, to make a long story short, I totally agree with that suttha you quoted, of course, and had hoped that became clear when I posted my PS.

I would rather discuss how we OVERCOME this our male or female "nature", caused by hormones,- which fact can hardly be discussed away, when you look at the special issues men have with their hormone induced "nature", -just look at the porn and masturbation threads, which are NEVER started by women, at least I am not aware of one.

The Buddha explained himself the special burdens women have to carry through a monthly menstruation, through pregnancy, nurturing and menopause.

So. Childrearing also reinforces specific roles, while exceptions to a learger or smaller degree are perfectly natural as well, of course, at least to me.

Now my point:

If we compare (now I found the word) if we compare religions and philosophies, Buddhism seems the most peaceful one.

Are there any wars led by Buddhists?

There are wars led by Christians and Muslims, right?



PS: I am also aware of the Amazons, just saying this because it is predictable that somebody will bring them up as up as a point to argue that women have warriorhood in themselves as well. Let's talk about what is common for the majority, and not get lost so easily in all the little details of exceptions. Ok? Thanks.

Let<'s keep to the majortity.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 11:07 am

phil wrote:Hi all

Sorry if someone's already referred to this (don't see a link) but here's a great sutta about not falling into the bondage represented by one's sexual identity.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta,

Phil


Phil, I think it has already been mentioned, and is not the type of discussion I had intended, as I think this is agreed upon. But thanks anyway. :smile:
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:43 pm

I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions. All these labels you throw around, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, man, woman are nothing but conventions, labels. They do nothing but reinforce the view of self, conciet and arrogance.

"The things of this world are merely conventions of our own making. Having established them we get lost in them, and refuse to let go, giving rise to clinging to our personal views and opinions. This clinging never ends, it is samsara,flowing endlessly on. It has no completion. Now, if we know conventional reality then we'll know Liberation. If we clearly know Liberation, then we'll know convention. This is to know the Dhamma. Here there is completion." - Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:45 pm

Accepting, giving up, letting go — this is the way of lightness. Wherever you're clinging there's becoming and birth right there. There's danger right there. The Buddha taught about convention and he taught to undo convention in the right way, and so reach Liberation. This is freedom, not to cling to conventions. All things in this world have a conventional reality. Having established them we should not be fooled by them, because getting lost in them really leads to suffering. This point concerning rules and conventions is of utmost importance. One who can get beyond them is beyond suffering. - Ajahn Chah

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:11 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

:anjali:


"Women's superiority to men" is a fabrication of your mind, and a projection onto me, you are interpreting my words in a false way.

I certainly don't think that way and never have.

I suggest you take back your projections onto me.

While pointing at me, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I do think however that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

If you don't think Buddhism is the right path, what are you doing here...?
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:13 pm

Btw, could you reduce your avatar please? It makes it hard to read your posts.
If you can't do it yourself, I can do it for you.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:17 pm

Annabel wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

:anjali:


"Women's superiority to men" is a fabrication of your mind, and a projection onto me, you are interpreting my words in a false way.

I certainly don't think that way and never have.

I suggest you take back your projections onto me.

While pointing at me, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I do think however that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

If you don't think Buddhism is the right path, what are you doing here...?


You have clearly made my point yourself.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:29 pm

bbb,

Good quotes from Ajahn Chah. But didn't the Buddha say discard the raft (Dhamma) after we have reached the other shore?

Some clinging and choice of Buddhism over other religions is to be expected to get us on the Path and going on the Path. Once at the other shore, we can drop those conventions and speak more in terms of ultimate truth.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:42 pm

Thats right david he did but also said... There are five ideas that ripen here and now in two ways. What five? Faith, preference, hearsay-learning, arguing upon evidence, and liking through pondering a view. Now something may have faith well placed in it and yet be hollow, empty, and false; and again something may have no faith placed in it and yet be factual, true, and no other than it seems; and so with preference and the rest. If a man has faith, then he guards truth when he says, "My faith is thus," but on that account draws no unreserved conclusion, "Only this is true, the other is wrong." In this way he guards the truth; but there is as yet no discovery of truth. And so with preference and the rest.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:43 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:
Annabel wrote:
bodom_bad_boy wrote:I am starting to see a trend here with your posting. The first concerning women's superiority to men and now that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

:anjali:


"Women's superiority to men" is a fabrication of your mind, and a projection onto me, you are interpreting my words in a false way.

I certainly don't think that way and never have.

I suggest you take back your projections onto me.

While pointing at me, you have 3 fingers pointing back at yourself.

I do think however that Buddhism is superior to other religions.

If you don't think Buddhism is the right path, what are you doing here...?


You have clearly made my point yourself.

:anjali:


You have no point about me and are avoiding my question.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:18 pm

Its not so much that Buddhism is superior to religions imo. Its that Buddhism is the only place in this world system to connect with Buddhadhamma.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:05 pm

I don't remember the exact quote off-hand, but the Buddha stated that any teachings that acknowledge the 4NT & 8FP and deliver one from suffering to freedom, are worthy of praise.

But there is also this, which is pretty much limited and only found in the Buddha's teachings:

This is the only way, monks, for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow and lamentation, for the destruction of suffering and grief, for reaching the right path, for the attainment of Nibbana, namely, the four foundations of mindfulness. What are the four?

Nyanasatta Thera, trans., also Soma Thera, trans.

There is this alternative, perhaps pc translation by Thanissaro Bhikkhu:

The Blessed One said this: "This is the direct path for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow & lamentation, for the disappearance of pain & distress, for the attainment of the right method, & for the realization of Unbinding — in other words, the four frames of reference. Which four?


:focus:

Perhaps this choosing of Buddhism as our Path and any competitiveness that we might accidentally do, is mostly associated with masculine traits?
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Sanghamitta » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:19 pm

Not sure what you mean there David.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:37 pm

In the Satipatthana Sutta the Buddha states:

"This is the only way . . ."

implying that all paths "don't lead to the mountaintop." But in Thanissaro's translation, it is put as:

"This is the direct path . . ."

Anyone from any religion can get to heaven, but there is a specific path to Nibbana.

(MN 10)
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Dec 31, 2009 7:07 pm

Hi David,
This is the only way & direct path are referring to the eightfold path, the Buddha uses this phrase a number of times in the suttas and is always referring to the 8FP when he does. Ajahn Brahm (off the top of my head) in his newsletter paper on satipatthana has a couple of references to other places this is used, although I disagree with his interpretation of two of the suttas he uses to back up one of his interpretation later in the paper.
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:24 pm

Anabel if you are asking why i am here it is because i have taken refuge in the Buddha and his teachings, but because i choose the path of Buddhism does not mean i am at liberty to tell a billion followers of Christanity and Islam that there religion is wrong or not as peaceful as mine (mine is better than yours ) because there history has been marred by some unfortunate events.

:anjali:
Last edited by bodom on Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby bodom » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:28 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:In the Satipatthana Sutta the Buddha states:

"This is the only way . . ."

implying that all paths "don't lead to the mountaintop." But in Thanissaro's translation, it is put as:

"This is the direct path . . ."

Anyone from any religion can get to heaven, but there is a specific path to Nibbana.

(MN 10)


I highly suggest reading Analayo's Satipattana: The direct path to realization as he discusses this passage, its implications and other uses in the canon at some length.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Does Buddhism mean we "become" more 'feminine'?

Postby Annapurna » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:40 pm

bodom_bad_boy wrote:Anabel if you are asking why i am here it is because i have taken refuge in the Buddha and his teachings, but because i choose the path of Buddhism does not mean i am at liberty to tell a billion followers of Christanity and Islam that there religion is wrong or not as peaceful as mine.

:anjali:


Fair enough... I understand and respect that, but are you really talking to 1 billion of them right now, or just to us?

The Buddha spoke to his followers about wrong view. ..
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