Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by Paññāsikhara »

BlackBird wrote:Do you think it's disrespectful to be of the opinion that they aren't acting in "the best possible way"?

metta
Jack :heart:
"the best possible way" or "what they believe to be the best possible way"?

In the spirit of acting in "good faith", I think it behooves us that if we are to make any assumptions at all, that we do so with some faith that people (particularly in the case of the Sangha) is acting in a manner which they believe to be best, best for the triple gem, and living beings in general.

If our default assumption is that others are up to no good, without really good evidence in support, then it may be best to introspect and check our own motivations and biases. At least, how would we feel if people were always assuming that our actions had some nefarious motivations behind them? How do we feel when others second guess our actions?
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by mikenz66 »

Thank you venarable, for making so clear what I was attempting to express.
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by BlackBird »

Paññāsikhara wrote: If our default assumption is that others are up to no good,
Hi Bhante.

Speaking as one who has an opinion that there is unskillful actions going on in regards to this Bhikkhuni ordination/WPP scenario, I must express that it is by no means my default assumption, but an opinion that I have formed by weighing up what evidence is available.

I myself do not think that other's are up to no good, but perhaps rather I think that they might be out of touch with the real purpose. But this is just an opinion and I do not for the life of me go so far as to declare it to be the truth.

Onto another note:

The purpose of my dialogue Mike, was to arrive at the discussion of an assumption commonly held that because Bhante X is a forest monk, he must be acting in an upright and proper manner. This, I believe is the same assumption which (en mass) has contributed to the troubles that the Mahanikaya in Thailand now faces. I don't however assume that you yourself hold the belief that all monks should be treated with respect and reverence simply because they are monks, but the direction I had hoped to steer this was to find out what your position was, and then go from there.

On that note, as I have said in above posts, I think that reverence and homage are objects better borne of reasoned confidence than of an assumption that because someone is a monk, that they are ahuneyyo, pahuneyyo, dakkhineyyo and anjali-karaniyo. Again it's probably best that I reiterate that this doesn't mean I go around with the default assumption that people are up to no good, just that I tend to reserve my reverence until I can be sure the Bhante I am speaking to is the real deal.

The Buddha says in MN 95
"There is the case, Bharadvaja, where a monk lives in dependence on a certain village or town. Then a householder or householder's son goes to him and observes him with regard to three mental qualities — qualities based on greed, qualities based on aversion, qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on greed that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on greed... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not greedy. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's greedy.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on aversion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on aversion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not aversive. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's aversive.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on aversion, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.

"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth.
- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The essence of that I'm trying to say is that it's important to make a thorough investigation, rather than to make assumptions. While my opinions with regard to the WPP/Bhikkhuni ordination saga are in no doubt related to this note about investigation/assumption, I have meant to treat them as separate issues, and some confusion may have arisen out of this oversight, so I'm sorry.

metta, apologies, and thank yous
:bow:

Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by BlackBird »

I guess this could all be turned upon it's head:

For one, it's inconvenient not to make assumptions when investigating Venerable X, or anything for that matter. My answer is that I guess my point is in regards to the degree and breadth of the assumptions being made.

For two, my opinion w/re to the WPP/Bhikkhuni ordination saga is at least partially based upon assumption itself. My answer is again that I consider it an acceptable amount of assumption, and again declare it as opinion.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi Blackbird,

Thank you for your post. I have had the opportunity to observe Ajahn Brahm, and some of the other Forest Ajahns (Tiradhammo and Vajiro) and I think that they are all worthy of respect.

Regarding an "unknown" Bhikkhu, I bow (figuratively, unless in a formal occasion) to them as representatives of the Sangha.

If I decided that a monk was not worthy of my respect I would simply avoid him, and not support him.

Blackbird wrote:The purpose of my dialogue Mike, was to arrive at the discussion of an assumption commonly held that because Bhante X is a forest monk, he must be acting in an upright and proper manner. This, I believe is the same assumption which (en mass) has contributed to the troubles that the Mahanikaya in Thailand now faces. ...
This seems a rather broad and undefined statement. I've seen what seems to be some rather poor behaviour by monks in Thailand, and elsewhere, and some rather inspiring behaviour...

Metta
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by cooran »

bodhabill wrote:I tend to agree with Jack's opinion

The argument that the WPP doesn't need to be involved in a popularity contest imho is not really valid, they did take that approach when booting Ajahn Brahm and Bodhinyana out, thinking that no one really cared, but when ongoing interest in the matter occurred and public opinion was mounting against them they were very quick to create the dhammalight website to put their side of the argument across

With Metta
Bill
This is overstating the case, Bill. Ajahn Brahms is one of the most well-known and popular Theravada monks in the world. He was excommunicated ~ as he would have been in any other organisation, lay or ordained, for blatantly and deliberately breaking the rules and ignoring the clear instructions of his superiors within the Sangha. The aborted conference, in his home town, had one main item on the Agenda which would have been discussed just a few weeks later - Ordination of Women as Bhikkhunis. If he had waited until then, and if there had been no progress, or he hadn't been satisfied with the rate of progress - then he could have resigned from the Forest Sangha and taken the action he did with no repercussions. He made a different choice ~ kammasakata.

The reason for the creation of Dhammalight is:
Ever since the conception of the Dhammalight website, there has been much speculation and guesswork as to who is responsible for its creation. So that the people are not misled into falsely accusing one party or another, we feel that it is appropriate to reveal who is responsible for it. We would like to stress that the reason why the website’s creators were not revealed until now was so as to keep the website an impartial source of information.
Dhammalight has been created not by any individual but the Administrative Committee of the Wat Nong Pah Pong Sangha. This Committee consists of many members that are abbots of key branch monasteries in Thailand and abroad. This Committee acts as a representative in Ajahn Chah’s name and of the broader Wat Nong Pah Pong Sangha.
It is clear that the recent bhikkhuni ordinations by Ajahn Brahmavamso, who at the time was a long time member of Wat Nong Pah Pong, has caused much controversy amongst the greater public. Even after the unanimous decision on the 1st November 2009 by 160 members of the Wat Pah Pong Sangha to remove Ajahn Brahmavamso and Bodhinyana Monastery as a branch monastery of Wat Nong Pah Pong, there has still been considerable debate and much animosity towards Wat Nong Pah Pong and its members.
This website is aimed at releasing documents and letters by reputed Sangha members, of which the public may not have access to, in order to paint a much clearer picture on the events leading up to the bhikkhuni ordination and why its secrecy and the manner it was conducted was unacceptable. Documents and letters that have been put here have been nominated and authorized by members of the Administrative Committee. Also, other documents seen as reputable justifying Ajahn Brahmavamso’s actions have also been put on the website in order for the public to gain understanding at the motives and arguments of both sides.
The Wat Nong Pah Pong Sangha emphasizes that they are not against women taking higher ordination, but on the secretive and improper manner the bhikkhuni ordinations were conducted. We hope that any administrative actions that have been taken towards Ajahn Brahmavamso may be seen in the light of preserving Wat Nong Pah Pong’s reputation and legacy that the Venerable Ajahn Chah has left us and for the benefit of the many that will follow after.

http://www.dhammalight.com/aboutus.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

metta
Chris
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by Paññāsikhara »

Hello Jack :)
BlackBird wrote:
Paññāsikhara wrote: If our default assumption is that others are up to no good,
Hi Bhante.

Speaking as one who has an opinion that there is unskillful actions going on in regards to this Bhikkhuni ordination/WPP scenario, I must express that it is by no means my default assumption, but an opinion that I have formed by weighing up what evidence is available.
Sure, we all have some evidence, that is true.
I myself do not think that other's are up to no good, but perhaps rather I think that they might be out of touch with the real purpose. But this is just an opinion and I do not for the life of me go so far as to declare it to be the truth.
The "real purpose"? hhmmm, so what is the real purpose, then? Maybe this is a case whereby we think that the "real purpose" is such-and-such, but others may have a different idea. So, if we are then to measure somebody in terms of our perception of the real purpose, when they have a different idea, then of course we may think that they are out of touch.
Onto another note:

The purpose of my dialogue Mike, was to arrive at the discussion of an assumption commonly held that because Bhante X is a forest monk, he must be acting in an upright and proper manner. This, I believe is the same assumption which (en mass) has contributed to the troubles that the Mahanikaya in Thailand now faces. I don't however assume that you yourself hold the belief that all monks should be treated with respect and reverence simply because they are monks, but the direction I had hoped to steer this was to find out what your position was, and then go from there.
I don't think that anybody is arguing along the lines of "forest monk" automatically and irrevocably = "upright and proper".

But, actually, I do hold that all monastics (monks and nuns, I know a heck of a lot of ordained nuns, remember? :P ) are worthy of respect and reverence to a fair degree, and likewise too, that anybody who is engaged in practice of the Dharma and other spiritual practices too!

There is a story, can't recall where, that in the latter age of the Dhamma, the so-called monks and nuns would be so terrible, that they would have spouses and children, and their robes would only be a rag tied around their arm. But it is said that at that time, if we can reverence them as representing the entire sangha (not as an individual person), then there is great merit in that. This is wisdom in this idea, if one doesn't take it too far!

To me, this is a case of "relying on the Dharma (or we could say triple gem) and not the individual person". Most monastics also consider any reverence that they receive in this manner, too. It is through the power of the Dharma, not through any particular personal qualities. (If one doesn't so think, pride and arrogance may quickly arise.)
On that note, as I have said in above posts, I think that reverence and homage are objects better borne of reasoned confidence than of an assumption that because someone is a monk, that they are ahuneyyo, pahuneyyo, dakkhineyyo and anjali-karaniyo. Again it's probably best that I reiterate that this doesn't mean I go around with the default assumption that people are up to no good, just that I tend to reserve my reverence until I can be sure the Bhante I am speaking to is the real deal.
I think this is a difference in how we see these things: I don't see "someone" as a monk or nun, I see a member of the Sangha. The Sangha is one of my three objects of refuge. It is the light in the darkness, the ship in stormy seas, the bridge across the river of death, you get the point. :)
The Buddha says in MN 95
"There is the case, Bharadvaja, where a monk lives in dependence on a certain village or town. Then a householder or householder's son goes to him and observes him with regard to three mental qualities — qualities based on greed, qualities based on aversion, qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on greed that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on greed... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not greedy. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's greedy.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on aversion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on aversion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not aversive. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's aversive.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on aversion, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.

When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates (lit: "weighs," "compares"). Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.

"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth.
- http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This passage begins: "There is the case, Bharadvaja, where a monk lives in dependence on a certain village or town. Then a householder or householder's son goes to him and observes him with regard to three mental qualities — qualities based on greed, qualities based on aversion, qualities based on delusion."

But, have we done that? Have "gone to him and observed him" or her? Or, are we relying on news articles, blogs, and second or third hand reports?
The essence of that I'm trying to say is that it's important to make a thorough investigation, rather than to make assumptions. While my opinions with regard to the WPP/Bhikkhuni ordination saga are in no doubt related to this note about investigation/assumption, I have meant to treat them as separate issues, and some confusion may have arisen out of this oversight, so I'm sorry.

metta, apologies, and thank yous
:bow:

Jack
"Make a thorough investigation" - yes. Go and live in Thai Buddhism for a decade or two, and then live in their monasteries abroad for another decade or two. You'll always find that situations are never as simple as a news story or blogpost. And you'll also see that there are advantages and disadvantages on both sides. Each person is trying to work within those, trying to act through their understanding.

I don't know if you've had the opportunity to spend a lot of time with Elder monastics, particularly those who actually are in a position to make or break issues like this. From what I have seen and experienced, they seldom make these decision lightly, and always have the greater good at heart. They may then come to conclusions that I would not do, but in the end, I must acknowledge that they know the situation much, much clearer than I do.

So, if I disagree, the best thing to do is simply to become a person who can change things. As Gandhi said: "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Go and become a Theravadin Elder, and ordain bhikkhunis, or stop anyone from ordaining them, or whatever else that you think is best. Then, whatever people may write in news reports, or on blogs, or whatever, you can do the good thing.

haha! That's my :soap: for you in return! haha!
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by BlackBird »

Thanks Bhante. Really, I mean it. Good post, and a lot for me to absorb there and learn from.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by bodhabill »

Hi Chris
by Chris » Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:00 pm
The reason for the creation of Dhammalight is: ....
This website is aimed at releasing documents and letters by reputed Sangha members, of which the public may not have access to, in order to paint a much clearer picture on the events leading up to the bhikkhuni ordination and why its secrecy and the manner it was conducted was unacceptable. Documents and letters that have been put here have been nominated and authorized by members of the Administrative Committee. Also, other documents seen as reputable justifying Ajahn Brahmavamso’s actions have also been put on the website in order for the public to gain understanding at the motives and arguments of both sides.
The lead up to this press conference has been covered from every angle and a number of us will never see eye to eye on the hows and whys of the Bhikkuni ordination

I am not going to rehash the same debated points again but prefer to look to the future ... sadly the WPP press conference held 28/12/09 as currently reported and the only information available out there to date shows the WPP is not happy with just kicking Ajahn Brahm out of the boys club

As per your quote from the dhammalight website it is clear that it is to be used to release documents ... I am happy to wait and see what they publish regarding the press conference
The Wat Nong Pah Pong Sangha emphasizes that they are not against women taking higher ordination
An interesting statement, I thought WPP had deferred to the Thai Sangha position of not recognising Bhikkhunis

With Metta
Bill
Last edited by bodhabill on Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by cooran »

Hello Bill,

I wonder could you clarify for us ... Do you practise within the Forest Tradition? And, if so, through which Monastery, and under which Abbot?

I'm assuming that you must because of your blunt outspokenness and certainty about motives.

I practise within the Forest Tradition, and under the tutelage of Ajahn Dhammasiha who was at the WAM.

with metta
Chris
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

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by Chris » Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:29 pm
Hello Bill,

I wonder could you clarify for us ... Do you practise within the Forest Tradition? And, if so, through which Monastery, and under which Abbot?

I'm assuming that you must because of your blunt outspokenness and certainty about motives.
Hi Chris
sadly the WPP press conference held 28/12/09 as currently reported and the only information available out there to date shows the WPP is not happy with just kicking Ajahn Brahm out of the boys club
I am happy to wait and see what they publish regarding the press conference
... this is blunt?

Why do you need to know my personal details, have you asked this of any other member of the Dhamma Wheel forum?

Unless you can clarify why you need to know I think what I do in my life, the monastery and the abbot I practise with are not for public comment and are totally off topic !!

With Metta
Bill
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by cooran »

Hello Bill,

Please disregard my previous post, which wasn't meant to be offensive to you.
My apologies for any discomfort or irritation you have experienced.

metta
Chris
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by bodhabill »

Hello Bill,

Please disregard my previous post, which wasn't meant to be offensive to you.
My apologies for any discomfort or irritation you have experienced.
Hi Chris

No problems ... this is why I like this forum, we can debate, sometimes overstep the mark, but each and every time we can and do show respect to each other

With Metta
Bill
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by Bankei »

I have comer across the Korwat manual from WPN which outlines the so-called monastic etiquette of Wat Pah Nanachat. Interestingly they have a little section on who visiting Bhikkhuni and other nuns should be treated. it is dated from 2003 and written by Ajahn Chandako.

see http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... quette.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(it is also interesting on how they treat visiting monks, both Theravada and non-Theravada)
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Re: Bhikkhuni Ordination performed - by Ajahn Brahmavamso

Post by Bankei »

Here is a WPP response to that recent press conference,
taken from http://dhammalight.com/official/pdf/Res ... -01-10.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Response to the 30th December 2009 Article, “Monks Target Western Clergy”
On 28th December 2009, a representative delegation of senior monks from the Wat
Nong Pah Pong Sangha held a press conference in response to various articles in the
major Thai newspapers released earlier between the 20th to 24th December. These
articles effectively stated that the Council of Elders and the Office of National
Buddhism had done everything in their power in regards to Ajahn Brahmavamso and
the bhikkhuni ordinations and that the future status of Ajahn Brahmavamso as abbot
of Bodhinyana Monastery and the ownership of that monastery was left up to Wat
Nong Pah Pong’s decision. The articles effectively left the responsibility of this issue
back on Wat Nong Pah Pong to proceed with. In order to make clear Wat Nong Pah
Pong’s stance, it was decided by Luang Por Liem and other governing committee
members to make a statement to the Thai media. A very unprecendented move in Wat
Nong Pah Pong’s history.
Although this matter has been cleared up within the Thai press, it seems that the
article in English has stirred up and agitated Western readers. This has been caused
by some misrepresentations of the events of the press conference and the editorial
language used in the article. Wat Nong Pah Pong feels that it is best to clear up these
misunderstandings.
The article says that the Thai Sangha “want the properties of Thai temples in the West
to come under the ownership of the Thai Sangha to ensure complete control.” In
reality, Wat Nong Pah Pong stated in the press conference that it had no power in
which to retake ownership of Bodhinyana Monastery, even if the land on which it
was built on was initially offered to Ajahn Chah (Bodhinyana Thera) and Wat Nong
Pah Pong. Wat Nong Pah Pong requested the Office of National Buddhism to reevaluate
the way that monasteries in the West are governed so that confusion and
division such as with the present situation would be avoided in the future.
The most misleading section is where it is written that “If action is not taken, the
council fears that more women could be ordained in the West,” and quotes Phra Kru
Opaswuthikorn saying that "Sooner or later, we'll see female monks everywhere."
Although this is a sensational statement in the eyes of a Western reader, a more
accurate translation would be, “If we (Wat Nong Pah Pong) had not taken any action,
it would open the doors in the future for women to ordain as bhikkhunis within the
Wat Nong Pah Pong western sangha, running into the same problem we have at the
moment (breaking Thai law)”. The issue is not that Wat Nong Pah Pong is against
women ordaining, but rather due to Wat Nong Pah Pong’s status as a member of the
Thai Sangha and its obligation to follow Thai Sangha Laws.
Further, this article’s portrayal of facts is to be questioned. It cites that “two women”
were ordained, instead of the four women which were actually ordained.
In conclusion, we would like readers of this article to be wary of the editorial
sensationalism and misrepresentations that have been given to this press release. It
was originally intended to reply to the questions the Thai media had on Wat Nong
Pah Pong’s stance in relation to the present situation with Ajahn Brahmavamso and
Bodhinyana Monastery’s status, not a gender equality and power-seizing issue that it
has been made into.
The Administrative Committee of Wat Nong Pah Pong
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Bankei
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