Laurens wrote:Not everything that is modern is automatically good, no, but not everything that is modern is automatically bad either. Its worth noting that just because Tibet is a Buddhist country does not mean that it was a blissful land prior to the Chinese occupation, from what I understand there was slavery in Tibet, there was mutilations, limbs amputated, eye gouging, capital punnishment to name but a few things - modernisation on these fronts is a good thing, no?Sorry, Laurens, likewise no offence intended, but to say that Tibet was backwards is indeed offensive, and it is also a Zero point, because not everything that is modern is automatically good.
Perhaps backwards was the wrong word to use, but from what I understand Tibet was not a quiet, happy place where no one had ever seen an aeroplane - for some people it was a living hell.
Now this does not justify the Chinese presence there, but it simply isn't realistic to think that when they arrived they destroyed a perfect society, and to their credit they have improved it in some ways, but sadly they are also a horribly oppressive presence.
I'm not saying Buddhism is backwards, but many of the cultural aspects that have become intwined with Buddhism are. Alcohol consumption isn't a modern thing at all, it was around at the time of the Buddha too, hence the 5th precept, divination was around too, hence the fact that the Buddha condemned such practices.Buddhism is also very old, but that doesn't mean it is backwards and struggling to keep up with the modern world, or perhaps we Buddhists should keep up with the modern world and drink alcohol like the rest of the modern world?
Modern society is not all good, granted, but it certainly has its benefits. Modern skepticism is healthy and in many ways Buddhism is up to date with that, saying that we should arrive at the truth through our own reasoning. The Dhamma is not out of date at all, but alot of the culture surrounding it is! Magic amulets and what-have-you, placing our faith in this kind of stuff is not reasonible and it can be dangerous.Mind you, Islam is not a modern world either.
And they also don't drink, like Buddhists. . .
So "modern world" is not really a means of referance.
Ajahn Brahm tells of a Thai general who spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 'bullet-proof' amulet, one day after getting drunk with his fellow soldiers he ordered one of them to shoot him, because he was so confident of this amulet, and he died. That says it all really.
I already said what my reason for investigating this was curiosity.
If intentions are pure, selfless, the fog parts anyhow.
Curious that it might work, thats still enough for it to appear to work.
Yes, I apologise some mediums probably do know that they are participating in fraudulent activities.That is a generalization.
But still, I see it as a waste of time and money, so I wouldn't even bother going once.I knew heroine would come up...
While feeling the same way about it as you, the comparison isn't very lucky.
One dance with sister Heroine, -and you walk out addicted.
Not so with a divination.
Ok well you have to bear in mind that you are talking to someone who frowns upon such practices, why does the I Ching work, whats the science? Why does divination work? I want hard facts, before I part with any cash.It's the farthest thinghs from my mind to try and prove anything.
The Oracle of Tibet is/was such a person. Also perhaps this Tibetan master.
If you want to consult the I Ching, I can help you. You can do it yourself then.I don't want you to show me Zen, and to me it doesn't seem like your cup is empty either, just filled with a different liquidNo. But how can I show you "Zen" when your cup is full....?
First hand experience isn't always the best thing to go by though, I've experienced things in the past that at the time lead me to believe something false and at the time you could not convince me otherwise. I have a friend who swears that voices talk to him through the television (yes he is being looked after) - its clear that what we experience doesn't prove anything.I just shared what I know, but nothing replaces first hand experience.
I also think I'm done.
Personally I like to stay on the rational side of the fence, it feels saner here. Each to their own though.
I get that point, but I feel that true masters should be teaching Dhamma, not dabbling in such things - what does it achieve? Surely a true master would abandon all worldly things and teach only that which leads to the end of suffering. The Buddha never performed divination for anyone, most likely because it doesn't lead to the end of suffering.I agree with you that a lot of what you see on TV is complete bogus.
The true masters ...you won't find there. .
I stand by my point that I feel such practices are un-Buddhist, harmful and if anything else, a waste of time.
Best wishes
Laurens
Laurens.
You started a topic, and asked people's opinions.
I shared my first hand experience, and I could say a lot more about it, but only to somebody who is genuinely willing to learn more, which I don't think you are. No offence intended. The funny thing about it is, that you really have no idea about the depth of serious divination. (I share your concern about the frauds.)
Which is on the one side a pity, and on the other side I couldn't care less. Your life is your life, and I know what I know. End of story. Time to drink tea and have cookies...
So, that said, we can continue to disagree, or I stop replying to this topic after this last post.
Who knows.
Look, a knife with a sharp blade can kill, and it can save a life, in the hands of a surgeon.Laurens wrote: The Dhamma is not out of date at all, but alot of the culture surrounding it is! Magic amulets and what-have-you, placing our faith in this kind of stuff is not reasonible and it can be dangerous. Ajahn Brahm tells of a Thai general who spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 'bullet-proof' amulet, one day after getting drunk with his fellow soldiers he ordered one of them to shoot him, because he was so confident of this amulet, and he died. That says it all really.
So, can we now argue that knives are evil or good? No. All we can say is, that the effect depends on the one who uses it.
I once treated a nun in my practice. She was suffering from insomnia, due to a mourning phase.
I knew what would help her, and asked her if she would be willing to wear a certain talisman in a certain material.
After she heard that it would be in the shape of a cross, she agreed.
She started wearing it, with a lot of doubt, but her sleep returned, and with it her optimism and strenght. She was reminded of how we have to accept what is, (for her God's will) and was able to let go of that person.
There are always 2 sides to each coin, Laurens, and a Talisman can be recommended and worn wisely and foolishly.
No. Curious, if. I've discarded a few practices that will not work reliably. I kept those of reliability.Curious that it might work, thats still enough for it to appear to work.
My advice doesn't cost a dime, only time.Ok well you have to bear in mind that you are talking to someone who frowns upon such practices, why does the I Ching work, whats the science? Why does divination work? I want hard facts, before I part with any cash.
This is the first condition.
The second is, to read this part of the I Ching carefully, and if necessary, more than once.
Then you could think about if you bring the mind that is necessary. (I don't think so...)
Hexagram 4. (The I Ching is also called the Book of Changes, and is one of the greatest ancient wisdom books we have. Recommendable to read without any divination intended, just for the wisdom. )
I am not pushing you, I have no interest, Laurens.
In the time of youth, folly is not an evil. One may succeed in spite of it, provided one finds an experienced teacher and has the right attitude toward him. This means, first of all, that the youth himself must be conscious of his lack of experience and must seek out the teacher. Without this modesty and this interest there is no guarantee that he has the necessary receptivity, which should express itself in respectful acceptance of the teacher. This is the reason why the teacher must wait to be sought out instead of offering himself. Only thus can the instruction take place at the right time and in the right way. A teacher's answer to the question of a pupil ought to be clear and definite like that expected from an oracle; thereupon it ought to be accepted as a key for resolution of doubts and a basis for decision. If mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt. Given addition a perseverance that never slackens until the points are mastered one by one, real success is sure to follow. Thus the hexagram counsels the teacher as well as the pupil.
We can leave it at that. Take your time.
I am inundated with work anyways.
Best wishes to you.
Annabel