Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Annapurna
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

Laurens wrote:
Sorry, Laurens, likewise no offence intended, but to say that Tibet was backwards is indeed offensive, and it is also a Zero point, because not everything that is modern is automatically good.
Not everything that is modern is automatically good, no, but not everything that is modern is automatically bad either. Its worth noting that just because Tibet is a Buddhist country does not mean that it was a blissful land prior to the Chinese occupation, from what I understand there was slavery in Tibet, there was mutilations, limbs amputated, eye gouging, capital punnishment to name but a few things - modernisation on these fronts is a good thing, no?

Perhaps backwards was the wrong word to use, but from what I understand Tibet was not a quiet, happy place where no one had ever seen an aeroplane - for some people it was a living hell.

Now this does not justify the Chinese presence there, but it simply isn't realistic to think that when they arrived they destroyed a perfect society, and to their credit they have improved it in some ways, but sadly they are also a horribly oppressive presence.
Buddhism is also very old, but that doesn't mean it is backwards and struggling to keep up with the modern world, or perhaps we Buddhists should keep up with the modern world and drink alcohol like the rest of the modern world?
I'm not saying Buddhism is backwards, but many of the cultural aspects that have become intwined with Buddhism are. Alcohol consumption isn't a modern thing at all, it was around at the time of the Buddha too, hence the 5th precept, divination was around too, hence the fact that the Buddha condemned such practices.
Mind you, Islam is not a modern world either.

And they also don't drink, like Buddhists. . .

So "modern world" is not really a means of referance.
Modern society is not all good, granted, but it certainly has its benefits. Modern skepticism is healthy and in many ways Buddhism is up to date with that, saying that we should arrive at the truth through our own reasoning. The Dhamma is not out of date at all, but alot of the culture surrounding it is! Magic amulets and what-have-you, placing our faith in this kind of stuff is not reasonible and it can be dangerous.

Ajahn Brahm tells of a Thai general who spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 'bullet-proof' amulet, one day after getting drunk with his fellow soldiers he ordered one of them to shoot him, because he was so confident of this amulet, and he died. That says it all really.
I already said what my reason for investigating this was curiosity.

If intentions are pure, selfless, the fog parts anyhow.


Curious that it might work, thats still enough for it to appear to work.
That is a generalization.
Yes, I apologise some mediums probably do know that they are participating in fraudulent activities.
I knew heroine would come up... :tongue:

While feeling the same way about it as you, the comparison isn't very lucky.

One dance with sister Heroine, -and you walk out addicted.

Not so with a divination.
But still, I see it as a waste of time and money, so I wouldn't even bother going once.
It's the farthest thinghs from my mind to try and prove anything.

The Oracle of Tibet is/was such a person. Also perhaps this Tibetan master.

If you want to consult the I Ching, I can help you. You can do it yourself then.
Ok well you have to bear in mind that you are talking to someone who frowns upon such practices, why does the I Ching work, whats the science? Why does divination work? I want hard facts, before I part with any cash.
No. But how can I show you "Zen" when your cup is full....? :smile:
I don't want you to show me Zen, and to me it doesn't seem like your cup is empty either, just filled with a different liquid :tongue:
I just shared what I know, but nothing replaces first hand experience.
I also think I'm done.
First hand experience isn't always the best thing to go by though, I've experienced things in the past that at the time lead me to believe something false and at the time you could not convince me otherwise. I have a friend who swears that voices talk to him through the television (yes he is being looked after) - its clear that what we experience doesn't prove anything.

Personally I like to stay on the rational side of the fence, it feels saner here. Each to their own though.
I agree with you that a lot of what you see on TV is complete bogus.

The true masters ...you won't find there. . :anjali:
I get that point, but I feel that true masters should be teaching Dhamma, not dabbling in such things - what does it achieve? Surely a true master would abandon all worldly things and teach only that which leads to the end of suffering. The Buddha never performed divination for anyone, most likely because it doesn't lead to the end of suffering.

I stand by my point that I feel such practices are un-Buddhist, harmful and if anything else, a waste of time.

Best wishes
Laurens

Laurens. :smile:

You started a topic, and asked people's opinions.

I shared my first hand experience, and I could say a lot more about it, but only to somebody who is genuinely willing to learn more, which I don't think you are. No offence intended. The funny thing about it is, that you really have no idea about the depth of serious divination. (I share your concern about the frauds.)

Which is on the one side a pity, and on the other side I couldn't care less. Your life is your life, and I know what I know. End of story. Time to drink tea and have cookies... :popcorn:

So, that said, we can continue to disagree, or I stop replying to this topic after this last post.

Who knows.
Laurens wrote: The Dhamma is not out of date at all, but alot of the culture surrounding it is! Magic amulets and what-have-you, placing our faith in this kind of stuff is not reasonible and it can be dangerous. Ajahn Brahm tells of a Thai general who spent a ridiculous amount of money on a 'bullet-proof' amulet, one day after getting drunk with his fellow soldiers he ordered one of them to shoot him, because he was so confident of this amulet, and he died. That says it all really.
Look, a knife with a sharp blade can kill, and it can save a life, in the hands of a surgeon.

So, can we now argue that knives are evil or good? No. All we can say is, that the effect depends on the one who uses it.

I once treated a nun in my practice. She was suffering from insomnia, due to a mourning phase.

I knew what would help her, and asked her if she would be willing to wear a certain talisman in a certain material.

After she heard that it would be in the shape of a cross, she agreed.

She started wearing it, with a lot of doubt, but her sleep returned, and with it her optimism and strenght. She was reminded of how we have to accept what is, (for her God's will) and was able to let go of that person.

There are always 2 sides to each coin, Laurens, and a Talisman can be recommended and worn wisely and foolishly.
Curious that it might work, thats still enough for it to appear to work.
No. Curious, if. I've discarded a few practices that will not work reliably. I kept those of reliability.
Ok well you have to bear in mind that you are talking to someone who frowns upon such practices, why does the I Ching work, whats the science? Why does divination work? I want hard facts, before I part with any cash.
My advice doesn't cost a dime, only time.

This is the first condition.

The second is, to read this part of the I Ching carefully, and if necessary, more than once.

Then you could think about if you bring the mind that is necessary. (I don't think so...) ;)

Hexagram 4. (The I Ching is also called the Book of Changes, and is one of the greatest ancient wisdom books we have. Recommendable to read without any divination intended, just for the wisdom. )


In the time of youth, folly is not an evil. One may succeed in spite of it, provided one finds an experienced teacher and has the right attitude toward him. This means, first of all, that the youth himself must be conscious of his lack of experience and must seek out the teacher. Without this modesty and this interest there is no guarantee that he has the necessary receptivity, which should express itself in respectful acceptance of the teacher. This is the reason why the teacher must wait to be sought out instead of offering himself. Only thus can the instruction take place at the right time and in the right way. A teacher's answer to the question of a pupil ought to be clear and definite like that expected from an oracle; thereupon it ought to be accepted as a key for resolution of doubts and a basis for decision. If mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt. Given addition a perseverance that never slackens until the points are mastered one by one, real success is sure to follow. Thus the hexagram counsels the teacher as well as the pupil.
I am not pushing you, I have no interest, Laurens.

We can leave it at that. Take your time.

I am inundated with work anyways.

Best wishes to you. :hug:

Annabel
Laurens
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Laurens »

Annabel wrote:
Laurens. :smile:

You started a topic, and asked people's opinions.
Hello, :smile:

I did start a topic, I wanted to develop some form of discussion, I hope you don't think I am having a go at you or anything, I'm just arguing with you :tongue: this is the Dhammic free for all after all!
I shared my first hand experience, and I could say a lot more about it, but only to somebody who is genuinely willing to learn more, which I don't think you are. No offence intended. The funny thing about it is, that you really have no idea about the depth of serious divination. (I share your concern about the frauds.)
My experience and what I have learned has led me to the conclusion that theres is no such thing as serious divination, what you have learned and experienced has led you to believe something different. Fair enough.
Which is on the one side a pity, and on the other side I couldn't care less. Your life is your life, and I know what I know. End of story. Time to drink tea and have cookies... :popcorn:
The same applies to you, I could continue to argue against your views, but yeah its probably a waste of our time. I'm afraid I won't be exploring any of the things you have spoken about, I would rather spend my time meditating... Or drinking tea and eating cookies.
So, that said, we can continue to disagree, or I stop replying to this topic after this last post.

Who knows.
I would like your input in this topic, but in doing so you have to expect that your views might be argued against. If you don't want to stay here thats fine.
I once treated a nun in my practice. She was suffering from insomnia, due to a mourning phase.

I knew what would help her, and asked her if she would be willing to wear a certain talisman in a certain material.

After she heard that it would be in the shape of a cross, she agreed.

She started wearing it, with a lot of doubt, but her sleep returned, and with it her optimism and strenght. She was reminded of how we have to accept what is, (for her God's will) and was able to let go of that person.

There are always 2 sides to each coin, Laurens, and a Talisman can be recommended and worn wisely and foolishly.
But here again I can see that it was belief at work. The cross was essentially a placebo, the only difference being that she didn't swallow the thing (one would hope she didn't anyway!)

I'm sorry again we have to agree to differ here, if I have insomnia I'll go to someone who knows what they're doing. I have had periods of insomnia infact, and I solved these by going to sleep and waking up at a set time each day regardless of whether or not I slept, it worked a treat. No superstitious objects required.
No. Curious, if. I've discarded a few practices that will not work reliably. I kept those of reliability.
My point is though your curiousity must have been leaning upon the side of 'it might work' or else you wouldn't have bothered going. I am curious about these things only that my curiosity has led me to read about how they really work, and I've abandoned all notion that they do work in a supernatural way.
My advice doesn't cost a dime, only time.

This is the first condition.

The second is, to read this part of the I Ching carefully, and if necessary, more than once.

Then you could think about if you bring the mind that is necessary. (I don't think so...) ;)

Hexagram 4. (The I Ching is also called the Book of Changes, and is one of the greatest ancient wisdom books we have. Recommendable to read without any divination intended, just for the wisdom. )


In the time of youth, folly is not an evil. One may succeed in spite of it, provided one finds an experienced teacher and has the right attitude toward him. This means, first of all, that the youth himself must be conscious of his lack of experience and must seek out the teacher. Without this modesty and this interest there is no guarantee that he has the necessary receptivity, which should express itself in respectful acceptance of the teacher. This is the reason why the teacher must wait to be sought out instead of offering himself. Only thus can the instruction take place at the right time and in the right way. A teacher's answer to the question of a pupil ought to be clear and definite like that expected from an oracle; thereupon it ought to be accepted as a key for resolution of doubts and a basis for decision. If mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt. Given addition a perseverance that never slackens until the points are mastered one by one, real success is sure to follow. Thus the hexagram counsels the teacher as well as the pupil.
I am not pushing you, I have no interest, Laurens.

We can leave it at that. Take your time.

I am inundated with work anyways.

Best wishes to you. :hug:

Annabel
Thanks for the quote, but as I say, I'm generally more interested in the Buddha's path for the ending of suffering, and not tittering about along the way, not to mention my skepticism. The Buddha's teachings are enough for me.

Best Wishes
Laurens
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
seanpdx
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by seanpdx »

Annabel wrote:
Laurens wrote:I usually like to find out if something is worth trying before I try it, I view these practices in the same way I view heroin, I can see its a waste of time and money so there is no need to try it
I knew heroine would come up... :tongue:

While feeling the same way about it as you, the comparison isn't very lucky.

One dance with sister Heroine, -and you walk out addicted.

Not so with a divination.
Slightly off-topic, but big pet peeve. This is just ridiculously false. Opiate-naive individuals do not become addicted to heroin after a single administration. Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

Laurens wrote:
Annabel wrote:
Laurens. :smile:

You started a topic, and asked people's opinions.
Hello, :smile:

I did start a topic, I wanted to develop some form of discussion, I hope you don't think I am having a go at you or anything, I'm just arguing with you :tongue: this is the Dhammic free for all after all!
I shared my first hand experience, and I could say a lot more about it, but only to somebody who is genuinely willing to learn more, which I don't think you are. No offence intended. The funny thing about it is, that you really have no idea about the depth of serious divination. (I share your concern about the frauds.)
My experience and what I have learned has led me to the conclusion that theres is no such thing as serious divination, what you have learned and experienced has led you to believe something different. Fair enough.
Which is on the one side a pity, and on the other side I couldn't care less. Your life is your life, and I know what I know. End of story. Time to drink tea and have cookies... :popcorn:
The same applies to you, I could continue to argue against your views, but yeah its probably a waste of our time. I'm afraid I won't be exploring any of the things you have spoken about, I would rather spend my time meditating... Or drinking tea and eating cookies.
So, that said, we can continue to disagree, or I stop replying to this topic after this last post.

Who knows.
I would like your input in this topic, but in doing so you have to expect that your views might be argued against. If you don't want to stay here thats fine.
I once treated a nun in my practice. She was suffering from insomnia, due to a mourning phase.

I knew what would help her, and asked her if she would be willing to wear a certain talisman in a certain material.

After she heard that it would be in the shape of a cross, she agreed.

She started wearing it, with a lot of doubt, but her sleep returned, and with it her optimism and strenght. She was reminded of how we have to accept what is, (for her God's will) and was able to let go of that person.

There are always 2 sides to each coin, Laurens, and a Talisman can be recommended and worn wisely and foolishly.
But here again I can see that it was belief at work. The cross was essentially a placebo, the only difference being that she didn't swallow the thing (one would hope she didn't anyway!)

I'm sorry again we have to agree to differ here, if I have insomnia I'll go to someone who knows what they're doing. I have had periods of insomnia infact, and I solved these by going to sleep and waking up at a set time each day regardless of whether or not I slept, it worked a treat. No superstitious objects required.
No. Curious, if. I've discarded a few practices that will not work reliably. I kept those of reliability.
My point is though your curiousity must have been leaning upon the side of 'it might work' or else you wouldn't have bothered going. I am curious about these things only that my curiosity has led me to read about how they really work, and I've abandoned all notion that they do work in a supernatural way.
My advice doesn't cost a dime, only time.

This is the first condition.

The second is, to read this part of the I Ching carefully, and if necessary, more than once.

Then you could think about if you bring the mind that is necessary. (I don't think so...) ;)

Hexagram 4. (The I Ching is also called the Book of Changes, and is one of the greatest ancient wisdom books we have. Recommendable to read without any divination intended, just for the wisdom. )


In the time of youth, folly is not an evil. One may succeed in spite of it, provided one finds an experienced teacher and has the right attitude toward him. This means, first of all, that the youth himself must be conscious of his lack of experience and must seek out the teacher. Without this modesty and this interest there is no guarantee that he has the necessary receptivity, which should express itself in respectful acceptance of the teacher. This is the reason why the teacher must wait to be sought out instead of offering himself. Only thus can the instruction take place at the right time and in the right way. A teacher's answer to the question of a pupil ought to be clear and definite like that expected from an oracle; thereupon it ought to be accepted as a key for resolution of doubts and a basis for decision. If mistrustful or unintelligent questioning is kept up, it serves only to annoy the teacher. He does well to ignore it in silence, just as the oracle gives one answer only and refuses to be tempted by questions implying doubt. Given addition a perseverance that never slackens until the points are mastered one by one, real success is sure to follow. Thus the hexagram counsels the teacher as well as the pupil.
I am not pushing you, I have no interest, Laurens.

We can leave it at that. Take your time.

I am inundated with work anyways.

Best wishes to you. :hug:

Annabel
Thanks for the quote, but as I say, I'm generally more interested in the Buddha's path for the ending of suffering, and not tittering about along the way, not to mention my skepticism. The Buddha's teachings are enough for me.

Best Wishes
Laurens
if I have insomnia I'll go to someone who knows what they're doing.
Honeypie, :hug: I know what I am doing too. I have a state exam for alternative healing. :tongue:
The same applies to you, I could continue to argue against your views,
Well, I think arguing AGAINST somebodies views is useless and I disengage, usually. unless I have one of my benighted moments, -maybe right now? :jumping:

It is much better to work together, to try to work at something together, don't you think? :smile:
The cross was essentially a placebo, the only difference being that she didn't swallow the thing (one would hope she didn't anyway!)
I have had periods of insomnia infact, and I solved these by going to sleep and waking up at a set time each day regardless of whether or not I slept, it worked a treat. No superstitious objects required.
Actually, the cross was just the form, the vehicle for something else. The working substance was something else.
My point is though your curiousity must have been leaning upon the side of 'it might work' or else you wouldn't have bothered going. I am curious about these things only that my curiosity has led me to read about how they really work, and I've abandoned all notion that they do work in a supernatural way.
I see.

I would like to speak with Shakespeare.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

William Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5

Which means, that not everything can be explained by "science". Or how would science explain the siddhi powers Moggalana talked about?

How would it explain rebirth?

For modern science e rebirth is "superstition". Oh, merrily we go round.... :jumping:
I can see that it was belief at work
We know, that each person has self healing powers. We call that the 'inner physician'. If we succeed in activating those self-healing powers, no matter how, a person gets well. And we have a saying that goes like:

The one who heals is right.
Jesus also once said to an ill man: Your belief healed you.

What's wrong with that?

Don't we all believe in Buddha who told us that rebirth is...?

We, have no means of knowing, unless we see past lives.

So we believe. Or don't.
I'm generally more interested in the Buddha's path for the ending of suffering,
Me too. I would still like to learn how to drive a car from someone else. :D
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Annapurna
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

seanpdx wrote:
Annabel wrote:
Laurens wrote:I usually like to find out if something is worth trying before I try it, I view these practices in the same way I view heroin, I can see its a waste of time and money so there is no need to try it
I knew heroine would come up... :tongue:

While feeling the same way about it as you, the comparison isn't very lucky.

One dance with sister Heroine, -and you walk out addicted.

Not so with a divination.
Slightly off-topic, but big pet peeve. This is just ridiculously false. Opiate-naive individuals do not become addicted to heroin after a single administration. Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.
I knew somebody would find it necessary to point out that a single dose mustn't get you on the hook, but it's a bit tiring to always mention everything there is to know about it. .

The point is, heroine is a very addictive drug with extreme difficulties to get unhooked.

Not so divination. :tongue:
Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.
Not really.

When you stop heroine your brain was so used to it that it makes you physically ill. But this goes along with any opiates(Oxycodone, oxycontin, hydrocodone, morphine, hydromorphone, codeine, buprenorphine, etc..)

The reason is it addictive (mentally and physically) is because your brain produces a chemical called dopamine. When you use heroin, after a short amount of time, your brain STOPS producing dopamine the way it should. The more heroin you take into your body, the less dopamine your brain makes. Because dopamine is an opioid, like heroin, your brain thinks, "Hey why do i need to make it? I'm getting it from another source", and it stops making it. WITHOUT THIS CHEMICAL, you CANNOT function. Look up the withdrawal symptoms! Runny nose, watery eyes, burning eyes, burning skin, severe vomiting, severe SEVERE insomnia, severe diarrhea, hot flashes, extreme sweating, chills, nausea, the list goes on and on but it'll stop. It's horrible, and the withdrawals go on for at least a week, at most 6 weeks usually, when you kick. Once you get your "next shot" or "next fix", they instantly go away and you are instantly well.

It is also mentally addictive because it produces euphoria. Yes, that is why they get addicted MENTALLY, first. But then when it gets you PHYSICALLY addicted (strung out), you don't get that feeling anymore, you just get well, instead of high. You get mentally addicted usually because the high is so intense and "good", but then once it gets you physically, you're screwed. Also, when you use for long periods of time (months), you shoot up so many times a day, you get very mentally addicted to tying off, finding a vein and shooting up.

:focus:
dspiewak
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by dspiewak »

According to my Dhamma teachers, a person can make tons of progress in the jhanas, and acquire some of the reported extraordinary abilities, without necessarily attaining as much in the way of wisdom or morals. I have been cautioned about this by my teachers on more than one occasion, and my understanding of it is that it has to do with mindfulness and responsibility.

Some years ago I had the great privilege of reading a really disturbing little novella called "Childhood's End" by Arthur C. Clarke. In the story, the world is suddenly visited by an alien race whose intelligence and strength far surpasses our own. They assume a benevolent (but secretive) control over the affairs of humanity, and each decree they issue produces peaceful and wise results. But one of their decrees is met with bewilderment, and that is that the space programs of all nations are to be immediately ended. The only explanation they give is this: "the stars are not for Man." It turns out that humanity, in its current state, would have done little except play out our defilements upon a galactic scale, and the results would have been catastrophic.

I think this is how I view these abilities. As in our current world, we have some truly amazing resources - the Internet, uranium enrichment, genetics, renewable energy - which are truly amazing in their potential, and yet can be cataclysmic in the hands of people (no matter how scholarly they may be) whose lives are controlled by lust, anger, and delusion.

So, now comes the question of whether or not I actually think such things are real or not. The truth is, I just don't know. I come from an empirical background too, so I admit I am biased against such claims. I have not yet seen anyone predict the future in some falsifiable way. I have never heard anyone even claim to speak with the departed dead, but I'm not sure that ability would be of much use anyway. I have, however, had people who were experienced meditators give me guidance that was so stunningly specific, so insightful, that I couldn't help but wonder if they had some special insight into my mind.

But I guess that's it, isn't it? Maybe these "gifts" are a lot less miraculous than we give them credit for, and really they amount to the subtle workings of a very calm and disciplined mind. Not so much "supernatural" but more "uncommon." I'm not even sure that "supernatural" is a meaningful word anyway.
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by seanpdx »

Annabel wrote:
seanpdx wrote:
Annabel wrote: While feeling the same way about it as you, the comparison isn't very lucky.

One dance with sister Heroine, -and you walk out addicted.

Not so with a divination.
Slightly off-topic, but big pet peeve. This is just ridiculously false. Opiate-naive individuals do not become addicted to heroin after a single administration. Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.
I knew somebody would find it necessary to point out that a single dose mustn't get you on the hook, but it's a bit tiring to always mention everything there is to know about it. .
Then don't mention it at all, since you made a false analogy.
Annabel wrote:
seanpdx wrote:Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.
The reason is it addictive (mentally and physically) is because your brain produces a chemical called dopamine. When you use heroin, after a short amount of time, your brain STOPS producing dopamine the way it should. The more heroin you take into your body, the less dopamine your brain makes. Because dopamine is an opioid, like heroin, your brain thinks, "Hey why do i need to make it? I'm getting it from another source", and it stops making it. WITHOUT THIS CHEMICAL, you CANNOT function. Look up the withdrawal symptoms! Runny nose, watery eyes, burning eyes, burning skin, severe vomiting, severe SEVERE insomnia, severe diarrhea, hot flashes, extreme sweating, chills, nausea, the list goes on and on but it'll stop. It's horrible, and the withdrawals go on for at least a week, at most 6 weeks usually, when you kick. Once you get your "next shot" or "next fix", they instantly go away and you are instantly well.
Wow. Ummm... wow. So much bad information here I don't even know where to begin.

1. The reason it is addictive is... complicated. It doesn't just have to do with dopamine. The "disease model" is horribly lacking, as Bruce Alexander tried to demonstrate, and as enhanced environment research has finally begun to demonstrate. If people would pay attention.
2. Dopamine is not an opiate. It does NOT bind to opiate receptors. Nobody who knows anything about neurochemistry would ever make this mistake. And the withdrawal dysphoria is due to DA receptor down-regulation.
3. The physical withdrawals are due to opiates binding to receptors found in the rest of the body, outside the brain. Hello? Tissue dependence? Down-regulation? It's not "horrible" physically. The horror is primarily psychological.
Annabel wrote: It is also mentally addictive because it produces euphoria. Yes, that is why they get addicted MENTALLY, first. But then when it gets you PHYSICALLY addicted (strung out), you don't get that feeling anymore, you just get well, instead of high. You get mentally addicted usually because the high is so intense and "good", but then once it gets you physically, you're screwed. Also, when you use for long periods of time (months), you shoot up so many times a day, you get very mentally addicted to tying off, finding a vein and shooting up.
See above re: the disease model. Dopaminergic activity via mu-opioid activation is not the sole player in opiate addiction.

Your understanding of addiction, and opiates, is rudimentary at best, when not outright incorrect. Come back when you can explain the difference between a mu-opioid receptor and a D2 receptor.

Like I said, more quackery from people who don't know how morphine works.
Laurens
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Laurens »

:focus:
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by 5heaps »

Laurens wrote:Divination is harmful because people actually believe it and might make dangerous desisions based upon the advice given. I don't need to say alot more about why that is dangerous.
The logic seems a little confused. Why are you calling deceptive methods (ie. tricks such as cold reading, etc) divination? They have nothing to do with buddhist divination (ie. power gained through jhana, etc).
A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Prasadachitta »

dspiewak wrote:According to my Dhamma teachers, a person can make tons of progress in the jhanas, and acquire some of the reported extraordinary abilities, without necessarily attaining as much in the way of wisdom or morals. I have been cautioned about this by my teachers on more than one occasion, and my understanding of it is that it has to do with mindfulness and responsibility.
Hello dspiewak,

It is my understanding that the jhanas are very unlikely without the significant establishment of a highly moral life. Wisdom on the other hand is very helpful for the creation of jhana but its lack does not impede the development of it.

Metta

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

seanpdx wrote:This is just ridiculously false....

Just more quackery from people who don't know what they're talking about, and know nothing of how morphine works.

Then don't mention it at all, since you made a false analogy......

Wow. Ummm... wow. So much bad information here I don't even know where to begin.

Your understanding of addiction, and opiates, is rudimentary at best, when not outright incorrect. Come back when you can explain the difference between a mu-opioid receptor and a D2 receptor.
Please don't tell me what to do.

And I think this suttha would be of great benefit to you:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:focus:
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Sanghamitta »

Going back to the op, I think that all such practises , whether or not they are genuine, and I remain unconvinced that they are genuine but that is not the main point, are simply reactions to fear and/or a need for certainty, and as such are adhammic. The Buddha warned against such practises, not to " frighten the children" but because he knew that in terms of an approach to Dhamma they are problematic. Goodness knows we have enough to do in this life if we want to follow the 8FP without dabbling in this stuff.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

Sanghamitta, C.G Jung (Carl Jung) explored the I Ching and Tarot cards with scientific interest, and Isaac Newton explored astrology.

Ridiculed and mocked by his peers, he scolded them:

"I, Sirs, have studied the object, you haven't."

Very true. It illuminates how we can arrive at different judgements simply through being onlookers, or insiders.

Of course it would be foolish to try anything and study things which are obviously dangerous, such as sticking your head into a water with piranhas.

Wouldn't help much whatever conclusion you derive from that experience.

I feel divination doesn't fall into this very dangerous category, but into a potentially dangerous category.

I feel it should only be used by a very few masters on this issues, sort of like:

Not everybody can be the shaman, priest, or sage of the village.

Very few can fill those spots.

I think altogether there is a lot of fraud and quackery going on and laypeople have no means of distinction.

If told this and that will happen it could lead them into false hopes, confusion and fear.

But I also don't think this is what true divination is about.


Here is somebody I would try:

A Buddhist:

http://www.lamadawa.com/divination-form.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Sanghamitta »

Annabel I dont see any reason at all to give credence to anything Jung thought about anything, still less to emulate him. Jung also thought that no westerners should attempt to be Buddhists. Nor quite honestly do I find anything attractive about the more folkloric elements of Tibetan Buddhism, nor as we are on the subject do I as a Theravadin Buddhist see the Dalai Lama as a a source of authority. What I do see as the authority on the subject is the Pali Canon, and The Buddha makes plain his view on the issue.

:anjali:
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Psychic mediums, divination, telepathy etc

Post by Annapurna »

Sanghamitta wrote:Annabel I dont see any reason at all to give credence to anything Jung thought about anything, still less to emulate him. Jung also thought that no westerners should attempt to be Buddhists. Nor quite honestly do I find anything attractive about the more folkloric elements of Tibetan Buddhism, nor as we are on the subject do I as a Theravadin Buddhist see the Dalai Lama as a a source of authority. What I do see as the authority on the subject is the Pali Canon, and The Buddha makes plain his view on the issue.

:anjali:
It's not about credence or emulance at all...

I'm at a loss of words, actually, after your reply.

I think we also have an agreement here to avoid sect bashing, and your comments about the Dalai Lamas authority or not and elements in Tibetan Buddhism are borderline to me. It's still Buddhism, but you speak of Tibetan Buddhism as if it wasn't based on the Buddha, and I don't agree with that.
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