16 Stages of Insight

Discussion of Satipatthana bhavanā and Vipassana bhavana.
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acinteyyo
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16 Stages of Insight

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:24 pm

Yesterday I visited a meditationgroup nearby. I was there two or three times before. The owner of the house where the group meets is a satipatthana-vipassana "fan". He gave me a text about the 16 Stufen der Einsicht (16 Stages of Insight). It's from a german handout called "Lotusblätter". In general this is quite similar.
Is there any refrence of such stages in the nikayas or is it completely the experience of vipassana meditation teachers?
I wonder about it, because I find it strange that I've never read about those stages.
What did the Buddha say about it? And if he didn't say something about it, why?
What do you think?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:45 pm

I am surprised you have not heard of this before.

See the Mahāsī Sayādaw's Progress of Insight. The subject is dealt with in detail in the Visuddhimagga.

In the Pāli Canon you will find the seven purifications in the Rathavinita Sutta
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:10 pm

Hello acinteyyo, all,

A summary here: "The Seven Stages of Purification" and "The Sixteen Insight Knowledges"
http://www.leighb.com/7sop16ik.htm

The above is taken principally from MN 24 - Ratha-vinita Sutta (The Relay Chariots Sutta) and from Ven. Matara Sri Nañarama Mahathera's book The Seven Stages of Purification and the Insight Knowledges.
The details of the first 2 Stages of Purification can be found in the Graduated Training which occurs many times thruout the suttas.
The last 5 Stages - the 16 Insight Knowledges are briefly sketched in many places in the suttas as
Disenchantment
Dispassion
Calm, Tranquility
Higher knowledge
Insights [of the higher stages of the Path]
Nibbana

The most detailed exposition of the Insight Knowledges found in the suttas is in SN 12.23 - Upanisa Sutta (Transcendental Dependent Arising).
And finally, these Seven Stages form the outline for the Visuddhimagga (Path of Purification), the commentary from about 500 AD. Each stage is discussed in detail and the Insight Knowledges (the last 5 Stages) are dicussed quite excellently in Chapters 18 - 23.

metta
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acinteyyo
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby acinteyyo » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:35 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I am surprised you have not heard of this before.

See the Mahāsī Sayādaw's Progress of Insight. The subject is dealt with in detail in the Visuddhimagga.

In the Pāli Canon you will find the seven purifications in the Rathavinita Sutta

Greetings Bhante,

thank you very much. It's a bit funny. I remembered the Sutta not until the part came with the seven relay chariots. I must have forgotten it.

@ Chris,

thank you, too. I already downloaded "The Seven Stages of Purification" and "The Sixteen Insight Knowledges". I'll take a look at it later. I heard it is a good summary...

But all things considerd, I think I'll stick to the four satipatthana mentioned in DN22/MN10. I don't consider knowledge of those 16 stages as helpful for my practice.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:

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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:52 pm

Hi acinteyyo,
acinteyyo wrote:But all things considerd, I think I'll stick to the four satipatthana mentioned in DN22/MN10. I don't consider knowledge of those 16 stages as helpful for my practice.

There are clearly pros and cons about reading this sort of information. If you have a teacher they should be able to advise you on whatever come up. Where reading may be helpful is when you are practising without a teacher and odd stuff starts to happen... Then having a map could be very useful.

Metta
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bodom
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby bodom » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:23 pm

The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Ben
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby Ben » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:38 am

acinteyyo wrote:But all things considerd, I think I'll stick to the four satipatthana mentioned in DN22/MN10. I don't consider knowledge of those 16 stages as helpful for my practice.


Sadhu, Acinteyyo, Sadhu!
Maintain your focus on practice, bhavana. But keep in mind that in time the value of the sixteen insight knowledges will become manifest to you. But right now, continue with your good work.
metta

Ben
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725

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acinteyyo
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Re: 16 Stages of Insight

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:13 am

bodom wrote:http://www.vipassanadhura.com/sixteen.html

I already posted this link in the openingpost.
mikenz66 wrote:[...] when you are practising without a teacher and odd stuff starts to happen... Then having a map could be very useful.

yeah, this sounds plausible to me.
Ben wrote:Sadhu, Acinteyyo, Sadhu!
Maintain your focus on practice, bhavana. But keep in mind that in time the value of the sixteen insight knowledges will become manifest to you. But right now, continue with your good work.

Thank you Ben, for your encouragement.

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:


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