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noticing thoughts after or during the thinking.... - Dhamma Wheel

noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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salty-J
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noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby salty-J » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:18 pm

wow what a lot of fun smilie choices... :juggling:
:tongue:
so my question is @ during meditation... I can do the noting I think ok, as far as, "there's thinking" or whatnot, but always after I've begun thinking, never at the same time, like I am having a thought and then I sort of interupt my thought when I notice I am thinking, with the note, "thinking", but I haven't been able to "watch" my thoughts, much less catch them before they happen, (which I could see taking quite some time to accomplish)
Is this common? Is anyone able to experiance their thoughts while at the same time, have a mindful awareness of the process happening as it happens? If so, how did it just start one day, or were you always able to do it like that? I know I'm supposed to be aware of the present moment as it is occuring, and whatever is happening to accept it and just watch, but it is toward a goal in the end after all, (although I don't usually think about the goal much during meditation) I am wondering if I sound on track or off track to you all and what your experiances have been with being aware of thinking at the same time as thoughts are happening.
:thanks:
oh I guess this is my first post here, so hello! :smile:
"It is what it is." -foreman infamous for throwing wrenches in fits of rage

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Cittasanto
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:28 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Freawaru
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby Freawaru » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:56 pm


Kenshou
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby Kenshou » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:51 pm

Sounds like you're just having a case of getting lost in thought. Keep working at it and eventually as soon as your thoughts start to waver, you'll notice. You might not be able to stop it, but your awareness of it will become more on-target as you go, and I suppose that's what matters. As has been said, practice practice!

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salty-J
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby salty-J » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:34 am

"It is what it is." -foreman infamous for throwing wrenches in fits of rage

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tiltbillings
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:30 am


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catmoon
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby catmoon » Fri Jan 01, 2010 3:53 am

I had my post all composed in my head, and then reading down the thread, saw that Tilt essentially got there first. So just let me add my voice to those asserting that, in quietude, one can develop the skill of seeing a thought starting to form, some seconds prior to it's arrival. Then one can return to object with hardly a ripple appearing in the calm waters.

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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:53 am


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IanAnd
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby IanAnd » Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:10 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

seanpdx
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby seanpdx » Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:45 pm


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salty-J
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby salty-J » Fri Jan 01, 2010 7:14 pm

"It is what it is." -foreman infamous for throwing wrenches in fits of rage

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mikenz66
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 8:17 pm


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salty-J
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby salty-J » Fri Jan 01, 2010 11:20 pm

thanks for posting that link, Mike, I will give them a listen for sure!
:popcorn:
"It is what it is." -foreman infamous for throwing wrenches in fits of rage

Freawaru
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby Freawaru » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:26 am


rowyourboat
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:41 am

i have come to feel that the Buddha didnt want us to be observing superficial thoughts ('papanca') rather the mental 'ground' underneath those thoughts (ie where it grows out from) when the thoughts have gone quiet. I think this is the meaning of the term 'citta' as in cittanupassana- mindfulness of the mind. The reason for this is several fold:

1) there is some evidence that the five hiderances must be suppressed to some degree before practising satipattana- hence leaving less distracting thoughts floating about in the mind (not it's complete absence), making it easier to be mindful, thereby facilitating the process.

2) I have come to see subtle 'thoughts' or should I see emotions/ thought impressions floating in the inky blackness of the mind which are defilements which I cannot ever see being picked up in any other way. So for any true progress mindfulness of the mental strata seems important. I have learnt a great deal about my self and my thought processes and what gives rise to the more gross emotions and thoughts in this way. I do not see how defilement patterns which arose in childhood (which is what I am tapping into now) can ever be worked with through mindfulness without doing this.

3) these subtle defilements cannot be worked at in any other way- ie doing metta meditation for example seems not to resolve (perhaps I didnt do it enough) deep seated aversions. However constant mindfulness of the mental 'pizza base' seems to have the effect of the blower on a misted windscreen, or the sun on the wet lawn working on subtle defilements with a very subtle tool.

However my difficulty has been seeing impermanence in this method. I can watch Change better rather than actual arising and passing away (which seems to work as well) - perhaps my faculty of mindfulness has not developed to that degree yet.

best wishes

Matheesha
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:18 pm


rowyourboat
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:21 pm

Hi tiltblings

I am watching the changing of emotions/traces of thought/'impressions', much like (in terms of speed) watching clouds change shape. Usually emotions have thoughts linked to them. I have found categorising/naming them especially under craving, aversion and delusions particularly helpful- because it forces the practitioner to recognise them for what they truly are. They may have been around for such a long time that they feel like second nature but they are nevertheless defilements. Naming them also seems to help to process them somehow- i think this has something to do with adult mature (hopefully) wise mind coming into contact with a mental creation of a childs mind.

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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tiltbillings
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:02 am


rowyourboat
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Re: noticing thoughts after or during the thinking....

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:23 am

With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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