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Conceptual and Non-Conceptual - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby rowyourboat » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:20 am

eye+visual object (both rupa)--> eye consciousness--> phassa/contact (nama/mental)-->vedana/feeling (nama)-->sanna/labels-->sankhara/mental fabrications

I think concepts start with and after that sanna/lables stage.

with vipassana we peel away from the sankhara backwards along this process so that we get to the phassa/contact level when there is 'bare awareness' (sight, sound, colour) perhaps even without the accompanying label (cat, car, flower).

(Vipassana) samadhi must grow for this to happen as it dampens the process of perception and stops proliferation and dispersion of the mind into sankhara/mental fabrication.

with metta
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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orangemod
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Decatur Illinois

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby orangemod » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:11 pm

Mike:
Thanks so much for the access to the book. I just started reading it and it is the perfect place for a beginner to start !!!
I have found it very easy to read & understand....because reading some of the posts here seems like reading a foreign language.
Meaning that the members here are so far more advanced than myself, I have to start somewhere to get familiar enough to comprehend well enough to try to follow.
Thank you and thanks to all here.
Cheers, Dave

rowyourboat
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
Location: London, UK

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:30 pm

Hi Dave

Sorry if my above post put you off! That was not my intention but simply adding something that might be of use to someone. I did not have the time to explain it all in detail, and besides it was not of great consequence. Best wishes on your path!

with metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha

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orangemod
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Decatur Illinois

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby orangemod » Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:35 am


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orangemod
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:39 am
Location: Decatur Illinois

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby orangemod » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:21 am

BTW, I just researched the salutation "Metta"
I was pleased to learn that it meant so many friendly things.
Best wishes or warmest regards are nice salutations....but "Metta" is like a dozen of these in one simple word.
Is that KOOL, or what !!!?

Metta

Dave

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Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby Ben » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:36 am

Hi all
Venerable Analayo has some interesting things to say on concept and reality with regards to satipatthana practice. I transcribed the attached extract from his book Satipatthana: the direct path to realization for a friend a few days ago, in part as the result of this discussion. Anyway, I hope you find it as useful as I did.
metta

Ben
Attachments
Analayo on concepts in satipatthana.pdf
(240.8 KiB) Downloaded 59 times
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Slow Learner
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:40 pm

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby Slow Learner » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:00 am

Last edited by Slow Learner on Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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mikenz66
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:11 am

Hi Slow Learner,

It's not actually my quote, it's Daniel Ingrams :) and of course it's oversimplified to make some particular points. Clearly being aware that things are impermanence, etc, can be helpful in dealing with stuff, as you say. On the other hand, that is a conceptual awareness of impermanence.

I think that one of the key points is that thinking about impermanence is not the same as having real insight into it, though presumably the former is helpful to developing the latter...

Metta
Mike

Slow Learner
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:40 pm

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby Slow Learner » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:39 pm


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catmoon
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:59 am

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby catmoon » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:01 pm


Fruitzilla
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:21 pm

Re: Conceptual and Non-Conceptual

Postby Fruitzilla » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:51 am



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