Using other sounds to meditate

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
withoutcolour
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Using other sounds to meditate

Post by withoutcolour »

My fiance and I attempted to meditate together in order to get me to practice more often, and he had an interesting question...
He asked, Do we focus only on our breath and bodies? Or can we focus on other things?
He said that the sound of the fan in our room was what he focused on, and it actually quieted his thoughts.
So I wasn't really sure how to answer him because I myself usually focus on my breath and my body, and it never occurred to me to focus on outside elements that would otherwise distract me.
What do you guys think? Fan-meditating?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
sabbe sattā sukhita hontu
User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6646
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by Cittasanto »

Hi WO
There are a host of things we can use as an object of our meditation, I think it is generally agreed that the breath is best for a beginner though.

Try reading the body section in the Mahasatipatthana sutta there are several versions around I have attached one which doesn't skip over the repeated parts, and try to read the Anapanasati sutta, which is all about the breath meditation.

the idea is to look inwardly first then expand outwards, so although there is nothing wrong with focusing on a fan as such he may find it better to start with the breath and work from there.

Hope this helps
:anjali:
Attachments
Satipatthana.pdf
(425.44 KiB) Downloaded 106 times
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill
User avatar
withoutcolour
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by withoutcolour »

Manapa,

Thank you so much for your prompt reply.
He has some pretty intense A.D.D., so I told him "whatever works for you." I'm going to try to ease him from the fan to his breath. He is a beginner but claims to use the sounds of the fan to clear his mind (which I didn't even know until today!) and I've been meditating for about 10 years.

I'm going to read that sutta and hopefully our practice improves :)

-wc
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
sabbe sattā sukhita hontu
User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18438
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by Ben »

Hi Withoutcolour

I have to agree with Manapa. The breath is an excellent object. Not only is it natural and readily available, the breath is both intimately connected with the body and the mind. Note how our breath changes with changes in our mental state. When we get angry, our breath becomes short, fast and sharp, when relaxed - slow and smooth, etc.
As your partner suffers from ADD, I recommend that he uses the samatha variant of anapana-sati which is to remain continuously mindful of the touch of the breath (around the nostrils and below the upper lip) for longer and longer periods. This will help to develop calm (samatha) and concentration (samadhi).
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
User avatar
withoutcolour
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by withoutcolour »

Thanks Ben.
I'll let him know, we will have to practice tomorrow or later this evening together with the fan off, heh.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
sabbe sattā sukhita hontu
User avatar
Kare
Posts: 767
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:58 am
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by Kare »

A small, but interesting excercize:

Listen to the sound (whatever it is). Keep your eyes closed. The sound is "out there", you are "in here". Now, try to determine the exact borderline between the sound and yourself.
Mettāya,
Kåre
User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by jcsuperstar »

hey we have the same signature! mine is in thai though...

i have a vipassana kit http://www.amazon.com/Insight-Meditatio ... 683&sr=8-1
and the first thing it has you focus on is sounds, any sound external, internal, just letting them be etc. so he's not doing anything too radical. also in the mahayana tradition kwan yin was enlightened though listening.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
suanck
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 7:51 am

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by suanck »

When I meditate on the breath, occasionally I can also "hear" the sound of air flow through the cavities of the nose, inflow and outflow. If one focuses on that subtle noise, it could become the subject of meditation.

Suan.
Freawaru
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:26 pm

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by Freawaru »

withoutcolour wrote:My fiance and I attempted to meditate together in order to get me to practice more often, and he had an interesting question...
He asked, Do we focus only on our breath and bodies? Or can we focus on other things?
He said that the sound of the fan in our room was what he focused on, and it actually quieted his thoughts.
So I wasn't really sure how to answer him because I myself usually focus on my breath and my body, and it never occurred to me to focus on outside elements that would otherwise distract me.
What do you guys think? Fan-meditating?
Hi,

in general one can use all the senses for meditation. Breath seems - because it is tactile - quite easy to most. But one can use vision, too, (for example the kasina meditation in the Visuddhimagga) or, of course, sounds, smells, thoughts, images, whatever. There is no such thing as an "outside" element, it is all internal, because we only are aware of an "outside" via the senses, and they are internal.

One more remark. Using the fan (a constant sound) as an object for meditation leads to relaxation and an increase of concentration (much like listening to the ocean or the wind in trees), to quieting the thoughts. But this relaxed state is close to a trance (state inbetween wake and dream) and some feel themselves drifting into it or ending up in a relaxed and pleasant but numb state. Nothing wrong with than in general, one emerges from it rather refreshed - but it is not the idea of meditation. When one's thoughts are quieted it is time to choose a different object, one more subtle. For example, using the sound of a fan, one can notice that the sound does not seem to appear with the same intensity all the time. The volume seems to vary. Focus on that.

Kare's recommendation is also very good, IMO:
Kare wrote: A small, but interesting excercize:

Listen to the sound (whatever it is). Keep your eyes closed. The sound is "out there", you are "in here". Now, try to determine the exact borderline between the sound and yourself.
User avatar
Goofaholix
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by Goofaholix »

If you are doing vipassana or insight meditation then sound should be part of your meditation just as much as the breath or anything else. However what you should be aware of is not so much the fan, nor the sound the fan is making, what you should be aware of is that hearing is happening, always observe what's happening at your sense doors don't give importance to what's happening out there.

However I notice you use the word "focus" a lot, focus isn't really an appropriate word for insight meditation. Perhaps you are trying to do a concentration technique then it doesn't really matter what you use to "focus" on as long as it becomes one pointed.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
User avatar
appicchato
Posts: 1602
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by appicchato »

Goofaholix wrote:However I notice you use the word "focus" a lot, focus isn't really an appropriate word for insight meditation. Perhaps you are trying to do a concentration technique then it doesn't really matter what you use to "focus" on as long as it becomes one pointed.
An astute observation...if I were asked...
User avatar
retrofuturist
Posts: 27839
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
appicchato wrote:An astute observation...if I were asked...
I agree.

Withoutcolour, the following guided MP3 meditation (28,307 KB - 20ish mins) may be of use to him...

Mindfulness of sound and thought
http://www.buddhanet.net/mp3/huxter/hux ... hought.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
User avatar
withoutcolour
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:53 pm

Re: Using other sounds to meditate

Post by withoutcolour »

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,
appicchato wrote:An astute observation...if I were asked...
I agree.

Withoutcolour, the following guided MP3 meditation (28,307 KB - 20ish mins) may be of use to him...

Mindfulness of sound and thought
http://www.buddhanet.net/mp3/huxter/hux ... hought.mp3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)

Thanks Retro. As soon as he and I get a free moment together, I will sure to let him hear it. He works third shift full time, and I work second-shift full time and go to college in the mornings full-time (so my schedule is roughly 8am-10pm and his is 11pm-8am!).
Thanks everyone for giving me a hand with this -- I am so happy that he has taken an active interest in my practice... he proudly wears the Sakyamuni Buddha necklace I bought him in Thailand, and is starting to become familiar with the dhamma. :group:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
sabbe sattā sukhita hontu
Post Reply