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Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mettafuture
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby mettafuture » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:11 pm


notself
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby notself » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:37 pm

Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103

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mettafuture
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby mettafuture » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:50 pm


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:07 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby meindzai » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:25 pm

I think that the relationship between our "selves" and our realm is an interdependant one. The "world" according to Buddhism is only that which is perceived with the six sense bases. Eye ear nose tongue body mind. What else is there? Can you describe a world beyond that? There is no force outside of ourselves and our own actions that determine our birth state. (That's the Christian view of things).

The Buddha tended away from questions about whether things "exist or not." In fact he considered that a type of speech that the noble ones should not engage in. Perhaps even now there are probably beings on the hell version of Dhamma wheel saying "oh that Human realm stuff is just a bunch of folklore so that we'll behave ourselves." And then they go right back to poking each others eyes out or whatever they do there. :tongue:

-M

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mettafuture
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby mettafuture » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:34 pm


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Prasadachitta » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:23 pm

Hi MettaFuture,

I understand how science can be a very reliable tool for establishing how specific things happen and what they are like. I too give great credence to what is established in a scientific manner. Perhaps our Buddha used the language of Heavens and Hells because it was the most simple way to communicate to the people of his day. After all the Buddha is recorded as saying something like "I teach suffering and the way to the end of suffering". Not knowing whether or not particular things exist out their is not the kind of ignorance which we need to overcome to be free.


Metta

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"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Heavenstorm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:07 am


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Prasadachitta » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:02 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Ben
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Ben » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:27 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:01 am


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salmon
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby salmon » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:20 pm

~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Jason » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:27 pm

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

notself
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby notself » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:40 pm

Jason,
Thank you for posting the links. People hung up on rebirth often fail to ask, "What is reborn?"
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103

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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Aloka » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:27 pm


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Kenshou » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:21 pm


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:13 am

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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mettafuture
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby mettafuture » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:02 am


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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby nowheat » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:46 am


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mettafuture
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Re: Do the heaven/hell realms hurt credibility of the dhamma?

Postby mettafuture » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:04 am



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