If you aren't doing Vipassana...

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
yuuki
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:21 am

If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby yuuki » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:59 pm

I'm still in the middle of getting educated about vipassana meditation (and whether I want to do it at all), and I'd like to put that whole issue aside and ask: if you aren't doing vipassana meditation, then what meditation instructions (if any) are you following or inspired by?

Right now my meditation is a mixture of just resting and trying to calm the mind.

When I'm resting I just relax and don't try to "accomplish" anything.

When I'm calming the mind I generally do things to alleviate stress in the body or in my feelings, and try to inject positive qualities into the breath.

Great thanks to everyone!

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:50 pm

Hi yuuki,

are you mindful and/or do you concentrate on a certain meditationobject like the breath or something else?
Do you notice what happens and/or do you know or try to know any thought that comes by?
Do you try not to be distracted by content of senses and thoughts but concentrate to examine the nature of phenomena?
Is the mind getting calm instead of agitated?
Do you let go of things or try to let go?
Do you learn something about the nature of phenomena, its impermanents and/or its unpleasantness and/or its emptiness of a self?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:35 pm

Hello yuuki,

Often yogis can find Vipassana too "dry" - and particularly in the West, we have a problem not experienced in modern Asian or Ancient cultures - that of not loving ourselves. We are inculcated with the idea that loving oneself is a form of conceit - whereas the Buddha taught not to differentiate between self and others with regard to metta. You may like to make Metta meditation your main practice – it is an effective vehicle leading to Liberation.

My favourite audio of the chant from Amaravati (which we also use at Dhammagiri Forest Monastery):
Brahma Viharas – Andrew Quernmore
http://www.vipassana.com/audio_files/bvra.php

Meditation on Loving-Kindness (Metta) - Bhante Gunaratana
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/resource/ ... ess_metta/

The Practice of Metta in Insight Meditation
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... tation.htm

Metta The Philosophy and Practice of Universal Love by Acharya Buddharakkhita
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el365.html

Loving-kindness
http://www.buddhanet.net/metta.htmindness meditation

Mettāhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mett%C4%81

The Practice of Loving-Kindness (Metta) As Taught by the Buddha in the Pali Canon compiled and translated by Ñanamoli Thera
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el007.html

Audio ~ The Gift of Metta – Loving-kindness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=e ... re=related

with metta
Chris
Last edited by cooran on Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

thecap
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:19 am
Location: Germany

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby thecap » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:43 pm

What's wrong with the meditations Buddha himself taught? :)

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:00 pm

Hello thecap,

Can you write more fully on what your understanding is?

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby bodom » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:07 pm

If you arent doing vipassana any other meditation you are doing would be considered samatha. You might also want to check out this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3019

:anjali: :anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 22, 2010 8:58 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby bodom » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:06 pm

I think i agree with Ajahn Chah as well.

Ajahn Chah

Q:You have said that samatha and vipassana or concentration and insight are the same. Could you explain this further?

Answer: It is quite simple. Concentration (samatha)and wisdom (vipassana)work together. First the mind becomes still by holding on to a meditation object. It is quiet only while you are sitting with your eyes closed. This is samatha and eventually this samadhi-base is the cause for wisdom or vipassana to arise. Then the mind is still whether you sit with your eyes closed or walk around in a busy city. It's like this. Once you were a child. Now you are an adult. Are the child and the adult the same person? You can say that they are, or looking at it another way, you can say that they are different. In this way samatha and vipassana could also be looked at as separate. Or it is like food and feces. Food and feces could be called the same and they can be called different. Don't just believe what I say, do your practice and see for yourself.
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby bodom » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:24 pm

If one were to reach jhana and would not come out and use that jhana as the basis for insight to arise would that still be considered vipassana, samatha or both? If one were to stay stuck in that jhana and not come out to practice vipassana when and were would insight arise? I think its a very fine line between the two.

As one Sri Lankan meditation master explains, "A jhana attainer may remain attached to the bliss and calm of the jhanas and fail to take up insight meditation. Here one should specially bear in mind that not only jhanic bliss but even birth in the Brahma-worlds… is impermanent. The aim of Buddhism is not serenity but the peace of… Nibbana, which is attainable only through insight-wisdom. Hence one should devote oneself to insight meditation" (Ven. Matara Sri Nanarama Mahathera, The Seven Contemplations of Insight, Kandy: Buddhist Publication Society, 1997, p. 129).

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby bodom » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:00 pm

After all the Buddha attained and mastered all the jhanas including the immaterials under his first two teachers and still did not reach nibbana. Where is the insight in jhana?

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:20 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

yuuki
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:21 am

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby yuuki » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:52 am


User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:22 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:23 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:34 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

yuuki
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:21 am

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby yuuki » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:54 am


User avatar
cooran
Posts: 8502
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:32 pm
Location: Queensland, Australia

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:42 am

Hello yuuki,

They are available on the same website for download.
Just scroll down until you find them:
http://www.bhavanasociety.org/list/category/MP3s/

metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

User avatar
drew
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:43 am

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby drew » Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:46 am

Hello Yuuki,
I have found that not getting caught up in concepts (like Vipassana or Samatha) to be very useful when practicing meditation.
You say you sit and try not to accomplish anything.
This is a great place to start.
Expectations are a sure way to agitate the mind!
I find if I just use simple awareness (Sati) and stay with the breath, or with the body sensations (Vedana) once the sati increases, and try to remain equanimous (Upeka) with whatever arises (pain, pleasant sensations) then things naturally fall into place.
My concentration, mindfulness and equanimity increase without any effort, and once this happens I can turn my practice to realising the truth - impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and the impersonal nature of all phenomena (Anicca, dukkha and anatta).
I suggest you do an intensive retreat as a deep practice is all but impossible if you have a busy life full of responsibilities.
And the rest of the time treat your mind like a little puppy - once you realise you have been distracted gently pull it back to the breath.
If necessary breath harder than usual, or follow the breath in and out of the body.
As the mind gets concentrated focus on a smaller area (nostils are good).
Once you are practicing deeply you will find your whole body is constantly changing, and you can examine yourself like a scientist experimenting.
For me, as I said, this is only possible when doing intensive practice, the rest of the time I just try to be as mindful as possible and remain equanimous.
Good luck.
The Buddhadhamma is a real treasure, we are all so lucky :)
The gift of the Dhamma excels all gifts (DP354)

User avatar
jcsuperstar
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:15 am
Location: alaska
Contact:

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jan 24, 2010 8:55 pm

i agree with ajahn sujato here, other's may not, to each his own...

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If you aren't doing Vipassana...

Postby bodom » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:44 am

I agree with Sujato. Meditate instead of arguing over meditation.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/


Return to “General Theravāda Meditation”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AvaLily and 13 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine