OK to disagree?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
PeterB
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby PeterB » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:32 am


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cooran
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby cooran » Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:53 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Kim OHara
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:10 pm


meindzai
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby meindzai » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:48 pm

I would have to say (not without a biased perspective) that Tibetan Buddhism makes a lot more claims about the physical world (energy, elements, healing, physiology and so forth) than does Theravada, and therefore the DL's statement is much more applicable to those kinds of teachings.

The main gist of Theravada isn't concerned much with the physical world, which science is limited to. In other words, science can only talk about the aggregate of form. It can say nothing of feelings, perceptiosn, impulses, consciousness, which are nama ("name" or "mentality"). Science can say nothing about dukkha, kamma, enlightenment factors, and a host of other teachings that are essential in Theravada.

-M

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retrofuturist
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:44 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

notself
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby notself » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:35 pm

Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103

PeterB
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby PeterB » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:51 pm

I think Kim O Hara that you are projecting your own dilemma, your own conflicted ideas onto the world. If we want to know about DNA or the structure of metal we go to science. If we want to transcend suffering we go to the Dhamma. There is no conflict. That is not to say that your dilemma, your need to find an accomodation for yourself, is not authentic or important to you.. Its just that it might not be shared as widely as you seem to imply.

meindzai
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby meindzai » Fri Jan 22, 2010 7:01 pm


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Kim OHara
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:16 pm


PeterB
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby PeterB » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:22 am

It clarifies that they are your concerns. It not possible to extrapolate from that some kind of crisis in the establishment of The Dhamma in the west. To seek clarification for yourself is quite right and proper. To assume that you have identified a widespread issue for western Buddhists is another issue altogether. I think most western Buddhists have in fact reached or are reaching or will reach their own accomodation with science.
As to topics like the Hell realms it is my experience that the longer we spend on the cushion the more these issues resolve themselves. As we penetrate more deeply into the various aspects of the Dhamma as a result of developing insight, the essential cohesiveness of The Buddha's Dhamma reveals itself, and what was difficult is seen in its wider context. A subtle interaction of elements that have their origin in the event under the Bo Tree.
In short I think that you are conflating the personal with the communal. Another thought that strikes me is that although my considered view is that the Theravada represents the Buddhas teaching in its most clear and unaltered form, it is not the only view. Jundo Cohen over at ZFI for example thinks that modern western views of Buddhism are an improvement on the original. I disagree completely, but some might feel more comfortable with that. Its what works for us.

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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby Sthiracitta » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:25 pm


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retrofuturist
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:46 pm

Greetings Sthiracitta ,

It's not sutta based... it's from the Dhammapada commentary.

I don't remember off the top of my head which verse though, but I think it's one somewhere in the 80-100 range?

I'll try to remember to look it up once I've got ven K. Sri Dhammananda's translation back in front of me (even then though, it will be his paraphrasing of the commentary story, rather than a word-for-word translation of it).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:03 am


wtp
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby wtp » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:19 am


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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby Sanghamitta » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:29 am

The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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retrofuturist
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:49 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Sthiracitta
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby Sthiracitta » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:56 pm

thank you retrofuturist and mikenz66. I'll look into this more

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mikenz66
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Re: OK to disagree?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:33 pm



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