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OMG it's a rebirth thread - Dhamma Wheel

OMG it's a rebirth thread

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
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Ngawang Drolma.
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OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:03 pm

Hi friends,

I stumbled across this idea in my own head this morning. Please tell me what you think, and feel free to provide any relevant suttas.

I think I finally understand people's objection to rebirth, or even post-mortem continuation.

Anything that we would consider me, mine, not-mine, etc. etc. is going to decay, rot, and disappear. In fact it's happening right at this moment, as I write this. There is nothing that is mine, and even post-mortem continuation implies that something is continuing. So it is easy to see how people would mistake rebirth or continuation as a form of eternalism.

But if you spend time concentrating deeply on impermenance, it becomes obvious that when we use the word emptiness we're also making reference to the immeasurably important truth of impermenance.

Therefore, when we talk about rebirth in any form, we're talking about becoming. And craving. Though any shred of "I" is subject to change, decay, conditioning, and disapating. What provokes the continuation of samsara and birth is the craving to become. Therefore, that the Buddha taught literal rebrith is fine, if one considers that there's nothing to re-anything.

I will not have future lives, and I do not have past lives. And I don't have this life. But out of ignorance there is an ongoing process of becoming that is rooted in dependent origination.

All input is appreciated :namaste:
Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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clw_uk
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:08 pm

Very well put :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

The problem that comes with rebirth is first of all the name itself, re-birth envisions that "something" births again when if there is birth again it would be new. People tend to envision themselves in the doctrine of rebirth, you will notice they say "I will be reborn" etc. They mistakenly take some part of it as self if they are aware of it or not. Its funny when you say there is no rebirth to a buddhist who adamantly believes in it they will say you slander the dhamma or that you are telling lies, they get upset or irritated by your words, its because they need it, but why need something that is not-self? Because on some level they cling to it as self. If you really grasp not-self you can comfortably say "There is no rebirth".

This is very good to bear in mind, nothing is ours,

not ours now, wont be ours then :smile:


:namaste:
Last edited by clw_uk on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:10 pm

Greetings Drolma,

:thumbsup:

(Just be careful who you say that around... who knows how they'll misinterpret it :spy: )

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:18 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Individual » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:19 pm

Last edited by Individual on Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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retrofuturist
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:20 pm

Best Rebirth Thread Ever.

Image

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:33 pm



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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:35 pm



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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:44 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:52 pm

- Peter


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clw_uk
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:57 pm

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:58 pm

All of a sudden it makes sense why they say "Meditate like your hair was on fire." This very moment has already decayed.


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:02 pm

Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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clw_uk
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:02 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:17 pm



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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:21 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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clw_uk
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:23 pm

Thanks retrofuturist,

I had feeling this had been touched upon before but thought id ask just in case :namaste:
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:09 am

- Peter


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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:38 am


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dumb bonbu
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Postby dumb bonbu » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:49 am

Monks, even if bandits were to carve you up savagely, limb by limb, with a two-handled saw, he among you who let his heart get angered even at that would not be doing my bidding.


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