Where members are free to take ideas from the Theravāda Canon out of the Theravāda framework. Here you can question rebirth, kamma (and other contentious issues) as well as examine Theravāda's connection to other paths
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Postby clw_uk » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:22 pm

Did the buddha teach;

A) The aggregates come into exsistence through craving through identifying them as self in the past (as well as now)

Or just;

B)The aggregates arise naturally through mother and father

Or is it both?

Is Nibbana, the release from all sense of self, simply living in harmony with the aggregates free from conciete?

Im probably asking stupid questions i realise this but this is something i keep thinking about.
Pure awareness is pure knowledge

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Re: Aggregates

Postby cooran » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:46 pm

Hello , all,

This article by Prof. Lily da Silva may be of assistance:
The Self-made Private Prison by Lily de Silva

And this one:
Nibbana - By Bikkhu Bodhi
The Buddha says that he teaches only Dukkha and the cessation of Dukkha, that is, suffering and the end of suffering. The First Noble Truth deals with the problem of suffering. However, the truth of suffering is not the final word of the Buddha's teaching. It is only the starting point. The Buddha starts with suffering, because his teaching is designed for a particular end: it is designed to lead to liberation. In order to do this he must give us a reason for seeking liberation. If a man does not know that his house is on fire, he lives there enjoying himself, playing and laughing. To get him to come out we first have to make him understand that his house is on fire. In the same way the Buddha announces that our lives are burning with old age, sickness and death. Our minds are flaming with greed, hatred and delusion. It is only when we become aware of the peril that we are ready to seek a way to release.

In the Second Noble Truth, he points out that the principal cause of suffering is craving, the desire for a world of sights, sounds , smells, tastes, touch sensations and ideas. Since the cause of Dukkha is craving, the key to reaching the end of Dukkha is to eliminate craving. Therefore the Buddha explains the Third Noble Truth as the extinction of craving.

Psychological Dimension of Nibbana
Philosophical Dimension of Nibbana
Nibbana is an existing reality
Is Nibbana conditioned by its path
Is Nibbana mere annihilation ?
The story of the Turtle and the Fish
Two elements of Nibbana
Experience of an Arahant
State of an Arahant after passing away
Mind Stilled

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Re: Aggregates

Postby Jason » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:29 am


My understanding is that the Buddha taught it is both. In MN 38, the Buddha states that three things are need for conception, and consequently, birth (which is defined in MN 141 as the "appearance of aggregates"): (1) the union of the mother and father, (2) the mother is in season and (3) the presence of the gandhabba (i.e., the consciousness of the unborn being). The Buddha makes it clear in SN 44.9 that craving is what makes this process possible. As for Nibbana, it is portrayed as the cessation of clinging in regard to the aggregates, as well as liberation from samsara, the continual round of birth and death. Whether or not you interpret this to mean literal birth and death is up to you.

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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Re: Aggregates

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:15 pm

Thanks both you have been really helpful.


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