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What is conducive to awakening? - Dhamma Wheel

What is conducive to awakening?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Dan74
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What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:13 am

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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:49 am

hmmm, the way the question is worded may lead to the assumption that there would be things that in and of themselves are conducive to awakening, a kind of generic or universalized principle, without considering that what is or is not conducive may depend on specific instances or cases, which may not always be able to be generalized or universalized.

To use an analogy, if we asked: What medicine is conducive to good health? We may first wish to inquire as to the patient's illness. We may be reluctant to specify any medicine as if it were always conducive to good health in a universalized manner.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Dan74
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:16 am

Apropos things universally conducive to awakening - I doubt any such exist (except perhaps food, water and air :thinking: )

A striking example that came up recently in a sutta where the Buddha taught the monks meditation on the repulsiveness of the body, went into a retreat and upon returning discovered that quite a few had committed suicide. The solution? Back to mindfulness of the breath.

So horses for courses, eh?

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retrofuturist
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:24 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Dan74
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:38 am

No doubt! But how do you teach sati? And regardless of how you teach it, how many people will misunderstand and develop all sorts of ideas?

I guess the point is not that sila, sati, panna, etc are not beneficial, but that teachings need to be tailored to the audience. Not really profound, I think (then again you'd be surprised how many of teachers don't really get it...)


Still, what outside of the Buddha's teachings (as preserved in the Pali Canon) would you consider to be conducive to awakening? :focus:

For me a very early formative influence were books by Victor Hugo which promoted self-sacrifice for the sake of others (no wonder I am ranting on about the Bodhisattva vows 30 years on! :D ) as well as survival stories like those of Jack London. It's very individual but looking back, they were good values and they helped me keep going at times when it wasn't easy and not (completely) lose sight of what truly matters. I would call this "conducive to awakening." Heck, I would even call most of what one finds in other religions as conducive to awakening. Great values, inspirational stories :twothumbsup:

(well some not so inspirational what with all the raping and pillaging of the heathens, who doubtless deserved it all, etc etc)

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IanAnd
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby IanAnd » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:29 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

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bodom
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby bodom » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:29 pm

37 Factors of Enlightenment or Wings of Awakening (bodhipakkhiya-dhammá) The set of teachings that the Buddha himself said formed the heart of his message.

Four Foundations of Mindfulness (satipatthana)
Four Right Efforts (sammappadhana)
Four Bases of Power (iddhipada)
Five Faculties (indriya)
Five Strengths (bala)
Seven Factors of Enlightenment (bojjhanga)
Eight Fold Path (ariya-magga

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby locusphor » Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:51 pm

Speaking from a personal standpoint, I believe that unrelenting pain is very conducive to awakening.

The key is that the suffering appear boundless, eternal, omnipresent to the student. He can do nothing to change the outcome: no matter how blameless his intent, no matter how quickly that intent gets forsaken, the result is always the same -- perpetual suffering.

I really don't like to think of my practice as a knee-jerk reaction to negative stimuli. And I want to avoid this trap. There's something base about my tendency to disregard unpleasant outcomes as 'mistakes' or 'errors' and therefore irrelevant to the pursuit of truth. And that's why today I am more grateful than ever to study these so-called mistakes and coax little gems of understanding from my ordeals. It's not fear or aversion that motivates my practice, but rather an earnest desire to see and accept my failures, to study the untruth with the same devotion that one reads the scriptures. Mistakes when seen correctly are actually a sign that the universe is exactly as it should be.

For me the ultimate reason pain is conducive to awakening is because, given enough suffering, we all abandon our static, unthinking selves in order to reach understanding. Self and its need to cling to knowledge is perhaps the greatest impediment to understanding. Therefore awakening requires we rid ourselves of self. There is no surer way to learn this than through intense and seemingly endless suffering.

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Dan74
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Dan74 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:26 am

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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:16 am

SN 46.53

Aggi Sutta: Fire
Right and Wrong Times
translated from the Pali by
Maurice O'Connell Walshe



"At such times, monks, as the mind is sluggish, that is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factor1 of tranquillity, the enlightenment-factor of concentration, the enlightenment-factor of equanimity. What is the reason? A sluggish mind is hard to arouse by these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to make a small fire blaze. If he heaps wet grass, wet cow-dung and wet sticks on it, if he exposes it to wind and rain and sprinkles it with dust, can he make that small fire blaze?"

"No indeed, Lord."

"Just so, when the mind is sluggish it is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration and equanimity, because a sluggish mind is hard to arouse through these factors.

"But, monks, when the mind is sluggish, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factor of investigation-of-states, the enlightenment-factor of energy, the enlightenment-factor of rapture.2 What is the reason? A sluggish mind is easy to arouse by these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to make a small fire blaze. If he heaps dry grass, dry cow-dung and dry sticks on it, blows on it with his mouth, and does not sprinkle it with dust, can he make that fire blaze?"

"Yes indeed, Lord."

"... a sluggish mind is easy to arouse through these factors.

"Monks, when the mind is agitated,3 that is the wrong time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of investigation-of-states, of energy, of rapture. Why? An agitated mind is hard to calm through these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to put a big fire out. If he heaps dry cow-dung and dry sticks on it, blow on it with his mouth, and does not sprinkle it with dust, can he put that fire out?"

"No indeed, Lord."

"... an agitated mind is not easy to calm through these factors.

"When the mind is agitated, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration, equanimity. Why? Because an agitated mind is easy to calm4 through these factors.

"Suppose a man wants to put out a big fire. If he heaps wet grass, wet cow-dung, wet sticks on it and if he exposes it to wind and rain, if he sprinkles it with dust, can he put that big fire out?"

"Yes indeed, Lord."

"Just so, monks, when the mind is agitated, that is the right time to cultivate the enlightenment-factors of tranquillity, concentration, equanimity. An agitated mind is easy to calm through these factors.

"But as for mindfulness, monks, I declare that it is always useful."
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Dan74
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Dan74 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:16 pm

Thank you, Gabriel, it was good to see this passage again and very appropriate for this thread.

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LauraJ
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby LauraJ » Tue Feb 02, 2010 11:57 pm




Conquer the angry man by love. Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness. Conquer the miser with generosity. Conquer the liar with truth. -The Dhammapada

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Goofaholix
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:16 am

What is conducive to awakening is the absence of that which is un-conducive (if that's even a real word).

Awakened is our natural state however so much of what we attach to, obsesses over, or believe to be real muddy's the waters. That's why so much of our practice is staying with the raw bare bones of our experience.

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Prasadachitta
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:29 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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retrofuturist
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:39 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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BlackBird
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby BlackBird » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:21 am

The noble eightfold path? I dunno...

:anjali: mate
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Goofaholix
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:49 am


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Sönam
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:15 pm

no hope ... no fear

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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:22 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: What is conducive to awakening?

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