OMG it's a rebirth thread

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Individual
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by Individual »

Drolma wrote:
Individual wrote:
Drolma wrote:If you listen closely to TB Venerables and read the teachings carefully, they speak of "birth" in the bardo. The bardo thodol is another state of mind of course, not a place. This birth could also be stated as "becoming" in the bardo state. So it's not in conflict with the Theravadan approach as far as I can tell. The intermediary state and subtle body must arise simultaneously with the other two aformentioned factors for conception to occur.
Not a "place", of course, because "location" is a property of this bardo. Right? Being another state of mind, though, it could be compared to a place.
Hi Individual,

No, there's no location property. It's like when you're in the bardo of dreaming. Where are you?
In a dream bardo, there is a sense of time and space (and therefore location), if I dream about it (if my dream is vivid and lucid enough). That "sense of time and space," would be a property of that bardo, having nothing to do with time and space in the waking world, though the two are certainly comparable (in terms of the apparent skandhas).
Element wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:There is a physical base for consciousness, but the physical base of consciousness is subject to impermanence (aniccata) too. If we accept that consciousness is not itself physical, yet that it is dependent on the physical, we can also accept that consciousness needn't be constrained by the laws of the physical universe.
I do not recall Buddha did not teach like this. Buddha said consciousness was dependent on a sense organ. However, the element of consciousness can transfer from life to life via the genetic programming with sperm and ovum.
Element, based on your definition of the mechanism for rebirth, if I don't procreate, this being's (what could be called my) consciousness is not reborn.

With metta :heart:,
Individual
The best things in life aren't things.

The Diamond Sutra
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piotr
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by piotr »

Hi,
Peter wrote:I heard somewhere he did not teach "rebirth" but rather "again birth" as in "For those who have not made an end to craving, after death there will again be birth."
"Rebirth" and "again birth" means exactly the same, since prefix "re-" comes from Latin and indicates repetition:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=re-&db=luna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Element wrote:
Drolma wrote:...the skandhas are purely conditioned out of craving.

This is what I think, please feel free to correct me, everyone.
Drolma

You know I am always happy to correct you.

Buddha had no craving but still had khandas.

Khandas arise from the elements.

With metta

E
This continues to be a point of confusion for me. How can skandhas be anything but conditioned? Or should I say, how is it possible that the Buddha conducted his enlightened activity while still bound by skandhas that were conditioned by old karma? Not that I want to take this too far off the birth-again topic.

:namaste:
Element

Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by Element »

OMG. I must earn a living and go to work. :hello: :lol:
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

Element wrote:OMG. I must earn a living and go to work. :hello: :lol:
Have a good workday. I'll be pondering post-mortem continuance and pure/conditioned skandhas in the meatime :toilet:

:hug:
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread

Post by Ngawang Drolma. »

In a dream bardo, there is a sense of time and space (and therefore location), if I dream about it (if my dream is vivid and lucid enough). That "sense of time and space," would be a property of that bardo, having nothing to do with time and space in the waking world, though the two are certainly comparable (in terms of the apparent skandhas).
I think I'm getting you now Individual :smile:

If you're asking if the bardo of dying is as "real" as the bardo of dreaming, bardo of becoming, bardo of present lives, etc. Then yes, it has locality in the sense that it's an experience that we perceive as real. I hope that helps.

Best,
Drolma
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