Rebirth Deniers

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
vinasp
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby vinasp » Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:50 pm

Hi everyone,

What is my position? I will try to explain.

1. Do I believe in post-mortem existence? - No.
2. Do I believe that there is no post-mortem existence? - No.
3. Did the Buddha teach literal rebirth? - Yes.

I am a "rebirth denier" in the sense that I oppose those who posit post-mortem existence. My name for this position is "strategic rebirth denial".
I also oppose those who posit no post-mortem existence. My name for this position is "strategic no-rebirth denial".

One must free the mind from delusions.

Best wishes, Vincent.

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BlackBird
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby BlackBird » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:26 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Feb 02, 2010 9:18 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

kayy
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby kayy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:29 pm


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BlackBird
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby BlackBird » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:54 pm

Hi Katy, nice to meet you too.

No indeed, for me and for most others I imagine that the carrot does not lie solely in a personal cosmic reward, although for some it is probably a motivating factor. What is a strong incentive however is the idea that if we act in a heedless and unskillful manner, there will be painful results.

On a further a-side, motivation for such things tends to go deeper than we probably realize at first. For instance quite a few people in the world give to charity because it makes them feel good, it generates a peace-of-mind. Now imagine how many of those people would give to charity if instead of feeling good, the received a sharp pain in the stomach every time they gave their money away...

Here is a good sutta on the motivations for giving, which you might find interesting:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

metta
Jack :heart:
Last edited by BlackBird on Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

kayy
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:20 pm

Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby kayy » Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:58 pm


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Ben
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Ben » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:31 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Paññāsikhara
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:58 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Dan74
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Dan74 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:30 am

_/|\_

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:11 am

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

nowheat
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby nowheat » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:20 am


vinasp
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby vinasp » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:23 pm

Hi everyone,

When I found this thread a few days ago I thought it was interesting. Nowheat was asking if anyone thought that the label "rebirth denier" applied to themselves. I thought that it may - in some sense - apply to my position. But perhaps I was wrong.

There seems to be two meanings of denial :
1. The opposite of affirmation - this relates to truth claims.
2. An alternative to "rejection" in the pair : acceptance / rejection.

On the question of rebirth or no-rebirth my position is : I do not know.
So I am not affirming or denying the truth of either proposition.

However, I am rejecting both propositions. Does this mean that I am denying both in the second sense of the word?

Best wishes, Vincent.

meindzai
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby meindzai » Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:35 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:33 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

seanpdx
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby seanpdx » Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:43 pm


meindzai
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby meindzai » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:52 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:59 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

seanpdx
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby seanpdx » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:11 pm


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Cittasanto
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Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:23 pm

Hi Sean,
Thought you may of been thinking of a specific article.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

seanpdx
Posts: 281
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Rebirth Deniers

Postby seanpdx » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:25 pm



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