tamahaɱ

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tamahaɱ

Postby nowheat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:04 pm

Can anyone help me locate the meaning of tamaham.? None of my dictionaries are any help (I don't think it has anything to do with darkness, tama) and my usual method of cross referencing fails me since it appears primarily in the Abhidharma for which I haven't found complete resources in English (or Pali, for that matter) on the Net.

Here's a link to the Channa sutta in Pali where you can find it toward the end in the sentence: "A¤¤aü ca kàyaü upàdiyati, tamahaü saupavajjo'ti vadàmi."

http://tinyurl.com/yzvzuqd

Thanks as always for any assistance.

:namaste:
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:20 pm

Perhaps "I chant my praise . . "

or "I praise . . ."

see: http://www.watlaobuddhamettram.zoomshare.com/2.html
under the Recollections of the Triple Gem
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby seanpdx » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:41 pm

In the link provided by David:

Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ abhipūjayāmi (I chant my praise to the Blessed One)
Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ sirasā namāmi (I bow my head to the Blessed One)

I believe tamahaṃ may be a compound of ta, a demonstrative base, and maha, declined in the third person accusative in agreement with bhagavantaṃ. If that's the case, "tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ" may be translated as "to the great/worthy (tamahaṃ) blessed one (bhagavantaṃ)". Would that translation accord with the OP's chant?

But, of course, see a proper pali scholar for a proper translation. ;)
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby nowheat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:44 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:Perhaps "I chant my praise . . "

or "I praise . . ."

see: http://www.watlaobuddhamettram.zoomshare.com/2.html
under the Recollections of the Triple Gem

Hmm, thanks for the link. I do see it there in the context of chanting (there and elsewhere) but when I try to cross-reference chanting and praise I get thomanaɱ as being the closest match.

The sentence it's in as translated by Nanamoli and Bodhi reads "Sariputta, when one lays down this body and takes up a new body, then I say one is blameworthy." I can't see how "praise" fits in there. Puzzling.

:namaste:
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby nowheat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:52 pm

seanpdx wrote:In the link provided by David:

Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ abhipūjayāmi (I chant my praise to the Blessed One)
Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ sirasā namāmi (I bow my head to the Blessed One)

I believe tamahaṃ may be a compound of ta, a demonstrative base, and maha, declined in the third person accusative in agreement with bhagavantaṃ. If that's the case, "tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ" may be translated as "to the great/worthy (tamahaṃ) blessed one (bhagavantaṃ)". Would that translation accord with the OP's chant?

But, of course, see a proper pali scholar for a proper translation. ;)


Yes, but not in the sutta I'm trying to translate a bit of. I appreciate the insight into "ta" though.

:namaste:
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby seanpdx » Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:55 pm

nowheat wrote:
seanpdx wrote:In the link provided by David:

Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ abhipūjayāmi (I chant my praise to the Blessed One)
Tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ sirasā namāmi (I bow my head to the Blessed One)

I believe tamahaṃ may be a compound of ta, a demonstrative base, and maha, declined in the third person accusative in agreement with bhagavantaṃ. If that's the case, "tamahaṃ bhagavantaṃ" may be translated as "to the great/worthy (tamahaṃ) blessed one (bhagavantaṃ)". Would that translation accord with the OP's chant?

But, of course, see a proper pali scholar for a proper translation. ;)


Yes, but not in the sutta I'm trying to translate a bit of. I appreciate the insight into "ta" though.

:namaste:


Actually, I'm reading it right now... I think it might fit pretty well. I'm still looking at the surrounding context, though.
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby seanpdx » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:05 pm

ettāvatā ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi
tamahaṃ ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi

The first is loosely and literally "to that extent 'one is blameworthy' I say".
The second I could surmise to loosely and literally be "to the/a great one 'one is blameworthy' I say". Not saying a great one is blameworthy, but saying "one is blameworthy" to a great one. Not sure if I'm explaining it well or not. =)
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby nowheat » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:17 pm

seanpdx wrote:ettāvatā ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi
tamahaṃ ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi

The first is loosely and literally "to that extent 'one is blameworthy' I say".
The second I could surmise to loosely and literally be "to the/a great one 'one is blameworthy' I say". Not saying a great one is blameworthy, but saying "one is blameworthy" to a great one. Not sure if I'm explaining it well or not. =)

Yes, since the Buddha is speaking, he is saying to his view (he being the one and only Great One around), it is blameworthy. Yes?
:namaste:
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Re: tamahaɱ

Postby seanpdx » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:23 pm

nowheat wrote:
seanpdx wrote:ettāvatā ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi
tamahaṃ ‘saupavajjo’ti vadāmi

The first is loosely and literally "to that extent 'one is blameworthy' I say".
The second I could surmise to loosely and literally be "to the/a great one 'one is blameworthy' I say". Not saying a great one is blameworthy, but saying "one is blameworthy" to a great one. Not sure if I'm explaining it well or not. =)

Yes, since the Buddha is speaking, he is saying to his view (he being the one and only Great One around), it is blameworthy. Yes?
:namaste:


Yes! Or something very much like that! =D
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