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Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit? - Dhamma Wheel

Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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retrofuturist
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Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:52 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:59 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby cooran » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:06 pm

And merely one [more] (multi-part) question. :tongue:


Why have Atta or Niratta? Why assume or reject? Why not keep an open mind on all speculative theories?
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:09 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:19 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:22 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:22 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:26 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:31 pm

A slightly more on-topic response. I skimmed (very very quickly!) Thanissaro's intro that you posted, and one of the three or four sentences I actually paid attention to was this: "rather than viewing a feeling as an appealing or unappealing thing, one should look at it as part of a causal process". I believe it was Gombrich (could be wrong?) who wrote that much of the teachings in buddhism could stem from the hypothesis that there is no accurate word for "process" in pali.

Were that the case, it would actually make anatta as a basis for insight rather neat and tidy, dontcha think?

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby Chula » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:13 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby Abyss » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:35 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:40 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:46 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby seanpdx » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:57 pm


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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby vinasp » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:39 am

Hi retrofuturist,

I am wondering what your understanding of annica is. Could you comment on this sutta? Thanks.

"Venerable sir, it is said 'true knowledge, true knowledge'. What now, venerable sir, is true knowledge, and in what way has one arrived at true knowledge?"
"Here, bhikkhu, the instructed noble disciple understands form, its origin, its cessation, and the way leading to its cessation.
He understands feeling ...
He understands perception ...
He understands volitional formations ...
He understands consciousness, its origin, its cessation, and the way leading to its cessation.
This is called true knowledge, and in this way one has arrived at true knowledge."

Connected Discourses of the Buddha, Bhikkhu Bodhi, page 967. [ SN 22. 114 (2) ].

Best wishes, Vincent.

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:04 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby vinasp » Sun Feb 07, 2010 1:59 am

Hi retrofuturist,

When the five aggregates cease, what is there to observe?

Best wishes, Vincent.

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:16 am

Greetings Vincent,

As I understand it...

The five aggregates are categorisations or classifications for what is experienced.

When a certain pain (feeling) arises and ceases, that is cessation of that feeling, but not of the feeling aggregate in toto. The cessation of feeling in toto is known temporarily in the formless jhanas, when only their absence can be observed. When consciousness finds no footing in aggregates, they can be said to have ceased.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

vinasp
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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby vinasp » Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:59 am

Hi retrofuturist,

Ah! ... Thanks. For me they are classifications of mental-objects ( objectified form, objectified feeling etc. ). I do not wish to disturb your discussion - so I will not enquire further.

Best wishes, Vincent.

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Re: Anatta as the basis for insight - What object? What benefit?

Postby Jack » Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:46 pm

[quote="retrofuturist"]Greetings,

How can anatta be the object of insight? What is the object? What is the benefit?\
===
Here are my thoughts. While doing vipassana, one notices that phenomena arises at the six sense doors without our "I" managing, controlling and making it happen. At the end of the sitting meditation, we stand up and begin walking meditation again without an "I" being involved. We look for that "I", that controlling self, and don't find anything.

jack


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