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Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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Sekha
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Sekha » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:33 am

Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Chula » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:12 pm


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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:56 pm

what is sex? does it somehow fall outside of nama and rupa? if not how then is it different from plowing a field or getting all worked up over a political debate?
or take for instance a sports match, there is the physical side of it while there is the lust and craving to win. can athletes not achieve jhana?
one achieves jhana when one's kamma allows one to do so, when the conditions are met and the mind is sufficiently calm and concentrated. the mental defilement needed to block this could come from a sex act 10 minutes prior to the meditation or 30 years prior or over the want of a sex act in a virgin, or a celibate monk.

until we are arahants we all have something we need to let go of, so unless jhana is only available to arahants those still with greed, hate and delusion can attain jhana.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby kayy » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:28 pm


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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Freawaru » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:59 am


Darren_86
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Darren_86 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:58 am

Dear Guys.. and especially to Dukkhanirodha,

This is an excerpt from Late. Mahasi Sayadaw commentary on Dhammacakkapavattana Sutta.

THREE SIMILES
A log of snappy wood freshly cut from a sycamore tree and soaked in water cannot produce fire by being rubbed with a similar piece of wet sappy wood or with a piece of some other wood. Just so, while still entangled with objects of sensual desires such as wife and family, while still delighting in passionate pleasures and lustful desires are not yet quieted within him, however strenuously someone strives, he is incapable of wisdom, insight and incomparable full awakening. This was the first simile that occurred to the Bodhisatta.

Even if the sycamore log is not soaked in water but is still green and sappy, being freshly cut from the tree, it will also not produce any fire by friction. Just so, even if he has abandoned the objects of sensual desires such as wife and family and they are no longer near him, if he still delights in thoughts of passionate pleasures and lustful desires still arise in him, he is incapable of wisdom, insight or full awakening. This is the second simile.

According to the Commentary, this simile has a reference to the practices of Brahma dhammika ascetics. Those Brahmins led a holy ascetic life from youth to the age of forty-eight when they went back to married life in order to preserve the continuity of their clan. Thus, while they were practising the holy life, they would have been tainted with lustful thoughts.

The third simile concerns with dry sapless logs of wood not soaked in water. These logs of dry wood will kindle fire when rubbed against one another. Similarly, having abandoned objects of sensual desires and weaned himself of lustful thoughts and cravings, he is capable of attaining wisdom, insight and full awakening, whether he practises extreme austerity or whether he strives painlessly without torturing himself.

So, I'm with Dukkhanirodha on this.. :buddha1: http://www.buddhanet.net/wheeld01.htm

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Chula
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Chula » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:17 am

Those similes are actually straight from the suttas:

MN 36: Mahāsaccakasutta
"Then these three similes — spontaneous, never before heard — appeared to me. Suppose there were a wet, sappy piece of timber lying in the water, and a man were to come along with an upper fire-stick, thinking, 'I'll light a fire. I'll produce heat.' Now what do you think? Would he be able to light a fire and produce heat by rubbing the upper fire-stick in the wet, sappy timber lying in the water?"
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Darren_86 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:22 am

Thanks Cula,

Yeap.. i think that is the one he (Late Mahasi Sayadaw) used to open up his commentary.

Regards,

Darren

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby adosa » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:12 am

"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:35 am


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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Chula » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:22 am


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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:13 am


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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Chula » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:26 am


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David N. Snyder
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:44 am

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Chula
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby Chula » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:26 am

Last edited by Chula on Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:31 am

Getting back to the original question: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana? No.

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Re: Do you have to abstain from sex to achieve jhana?

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:36 am

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