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Women can't become Buddhas? - Page 8 - Dhamma Wheel

Women can't become Buddhas?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Annapurna
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:50 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Dhammanando
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammanando » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:09 pm


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Annapurna
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Annapurna » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:17 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Will
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Re: No record of Women Buddhas

Postby Will » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:09 pm

Have not read every post here, so apologies if this was mentioned.

Instead of arguing about Buddha's motives, whether he said what he said or it was tampered with, whether patriarchy rules etc.- why not just search the records for a female Buddha? There have been many buddhas before Gotama and there will be more. The next one will be male, as were all that came before, so far as I know of. The Jains (a non-theistic group) have a very long list of Tirthankaras - they were all male.

The Mahayana and Hinduism have very high avatars or bodhisattvas that are female - Tara & Parvati for example. But as far as Buddhas go, I am not aware of any females. (If one wants to add "yet" - feel free.)
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:15 pm

i think one of the jain Tirthankaras was female

19th Tirthankar, Malli Nath,

oh and it seems only one sect of jains believes it
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby jcsuperstar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:17 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Will
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Will » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:25 pm

A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Dhammanando
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:54 am


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Will
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Will » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:12 am

Annabel: There is more to becoming a Buddha than even the vow. Study chapter one of http://www.aimwell.org/Books/Ledi/Uttama/uttama.html
A bodhisattva does not become weary of evil beings nor does he commit the error of bringing forth thoughts inclined to reject them and cast them aside. Avatamsaka Sutra, ch. 25

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Dhammakid
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:43 am

Bhante,
Yes, that exhaustive list is what I keep going back to as well. However...

I still can't help but point out one thing: If someone in our world system is to become a Sammasambuddha, then, according to the suttas, they will most definitely be a man. So pointing out that it's hard for anyone to attain it doesn't defeat the fact that women can't do it and men can. Obviously women and those concerned with women's equality will have a problem with this interpretation.

Furthermore, the status of Sammasambuddha-ship in all of world Buddhism further makes this an issue of concern. I mean, I could understand if becoming a teaching Buddha wasn't a big deal. But it is. And it's considered the utmost goal, especially in Mahayana. Even more reason to question it. And specifically for the Mahayana, women can't vow to save all beings - because they literally can't save all beings. They have to first hope to be reborn as a male and then make the vow.

C'mon people! Maybe excepting Element, how can anyone in this forum just take this for face value?

There might be an easy answer, but I have to ask this: how is this any different than the Christian viewpoint that women can't become priests or bishops?

But to respond to your response to my post earlier - yes, I am sorry I forgot about the idea that the commentators draw no parallels between kamma manifestation in sex and the inability of women to attain teaching Buddha status. I at least find that comforting. However, they didn't try to tackle this issue - why? I guess because it wasn't an issue at the time. But it is now, and so maybe monks an academics should spend more time on it.

Sure, this idea has no bearing on my actual practice. But it does have bearing on the propagation of the Dhamma to the world and to the discussion of the Dhamma with others. And so we shouldn't just dismiss it as useless. If we actually do want to become teaching Buddhas, then we most definitely won't be able to avoid this discussion. Best get it right when we can.

:namaste:
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Re: No record of Women Buddhas

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:46 am

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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:09 am

- Peter


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Dhammakid
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:11 am

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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:16 am

- Peter


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Dhammakid
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:24 am

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:34 am

Last edited by Ngawang Drolma. on Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:38 am, edited 2 times in total.


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Dhammakid
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammakid » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:36 am

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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:37 am



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Dhammanando
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Dhammanando » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:42 am


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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Women can't be enlightened?

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:44 am




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