Thailand -> Perth

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Thailand -> Perth

Postby Guy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:29 am

Hello,

I was wondering if it was possible for a Western Australian layman to go to Thailand to receive full ordination, then after 5 years return to Perth as a Bhikkhu and live at Bodhinyana Monastery. A few questions:

1) Do I need a working Visa or anything like that to stay as a Bhikkhu in Thailand for a period of 5 years if I am not a citizen?
2) Is the Bhikkhuni ordination thing going to be an issue if I want to stay with Ajahn Brahm after ordaining in Thailand?
3) Any good suggestions for monasteries for westerners?

Thanks and Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby appicchato » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:26 am

Hi Guy,

Guy wrote:1) Do I need a working Visa or anything like that to stay as a Bhikkhu in Thailand for a period of 5 years if I am not a citizen?


No, I would recommend getting a one year Non-Immigrant Type 'O' visa before you come...it will allow you plenty of time to stay without being constrained by visa limitations...once ordained you can apply (here) for successive one year religious visas...

2) Is the Bhikkhuni ordination thing going to be an issue if I want to stay with Ajahn Brahm after ordaining in Thailand?


No, although that doesn't mean you have to talk about your future plans...

3) Any good suggestions for monasteries for westerners?


The possibilities are myriad...the links below have many to peruse...the last two have several western monks residing...

http://www.sacred-destinations.com/thai ... emples.htm
http://www.kammatthana.com/a_guide_to_b ... eries_.htm
http://www.watmarpjan.org/
http://www.watpahnanachat.org/

Wishing you well... :smile:
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Guy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:36 am

Thank you very much, Venerable!
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby baratgab » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:32 pm

Guy wrote:I was wondering if it was possible for a Western Australian layman to go to Thailand to receive full ordination, then after 5 years return to Perth as a Bhikkhu and live at Bodhinyana Monastery.


May I ask you why don't you prefer ordaining directly at Bodhinyana? Is this have anything to do with the obligatory anagarika and samanera period that they have, for some reason, in the western monasteries?
"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Guy » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:33 pm

Hi Baratgab,

No, I don't mind doing the Anagarika thing.

One reason why I would decide to travel to Thailand is because I have lived most of my life in Perth and most of my friends, family and memories are in Perth. Basically, I am very comfortable in Perth (the simile of a Hobbit living in Hobbiton comes to mind) and so I think it may be useful to push myself out of my comfort zone for the initial part of my training. Of course, living the life of a Bhikkhu is surely not without its unique challenges (and rewards) whether in Australia or Thailand so I feel confident that if I give it my best effort I will benefit in either case.

At the moment I am just exploring various possibilities, I will talk to Ajahn Brahm and see what he thinks.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:35 pm

baratgab wrote:
Guy wrote:I was wondering if it was possible for a Western Australian layman to go to Thailand to receive full ordination, then after 5 years return to Perth as a Bhikkhu and live at Bodhinyana Monastery.


May I ask you why don't you prefer ordaining directly at Bodhinyana? Is this have anything to do with the obligatory anagarika and samanera period that they have, for some reason, in the western monasteries?

viewtopic.php?t=2048&p=27338#p27338
I have an attachment there which will explain the Anagarica and Samanera periods, the attachment isn't from aus but the UK monasteries but I would imagine the reasons are the same.
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:38 pm

Guy wrote:Hi Baratgab,

No, I don't mind doing the Anagarika thing.

At the moment I am just exploring various possibilities, I will talk to Ajahn Brahm and see what he thinks.

With Metta,

Guy


Let us know what he says!
I think it is a very good Idea going to thailand, for those reasons.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby baratgab » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:35 pm

Manapa wrote:http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=2048&p=27338#p27338
I have an attachment there which will explain the Anagarica and Samanera periods, the attachment isn't from aus but the UK monasteries but I would imagine the reasons are the same.


Yes, I received the same publication from Cittaviveka last year, but it explained completely nothing for me. After leaving Cittaviveka I had the feeling that there is one central theme of this system of rules and conditions: "If you don't agree with the practices and prove it by years of servitude, you simply don't belong here." This is how bureaucracy can override common sense concerns, for example regarding the routine task of trashing, slashing, cutting, raking, weeding and burning the natural environment whole morning... So much for that contemplative life and gentleness. :weep: But anyway, this is not important any more; I'm done with these English "forest" monasteries. And this was the last piece of critics on my part.

I was just curious about the reasons of Guy. :smile: I too agree that seeing how things work in Thailand is a good idea, and I also respect Ajahn Brahm as one of my main teachers.

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"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Cittasanto » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:43 pm

Same could be said for any western monestary which has this sort of set up!

and more western monestaries are moving in this direction, as those who want to be monks don't always have what it takes, or are inclined to the practice the monestary has. we don't start a job and change the organisation to fit us, it is a two way street, both have to be willing to meet half way with.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
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Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Bankei » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:07 am

Sujato Bhikkhu has reported that monks associated with the WA temple have recently been refused permission to enter other WPP monasteries. So if you were to ordain there you may have problems with other monks of the WPP group.

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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby appicchato » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:25 am

Bankei wrote:...if you were to ordain there you may have problems with other monks of the WPP group.

Quite possibly...although only if the topic of one's future plans (to live with Ajahn Brahm) are broached...
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:31 am

appicchato wrote:
Bankei wrote:...if you were to ordain there you may have problems with other monks of the WPP group.

Quite possibly...although only if the topic of one's future plans (to live with Ajahn Brahm) are broached...

I doubt that it would be a question asked by many if at all.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby appicchato » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:12 am

Have you been a monk living in a temple?...if not, speculation gets one almost nowhere...
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Re: Thailand -> Perth

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:28 am

appicchato wrote:Have you been a monk living in a temple?...if not, speculation gets one almost nowhere...

:anjali:
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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