Chula wrote:he first jhāna is enough to attain liberation, it still doesn't make it inferior in terms of getting the job done. There are a lot of instances in the Canon where monks and nuns realize the goal while reflecting on asubha (Theragāthā and Therīgāthā come to mind).
I didn't know first jhāna is enough to gain liberation... Can you specify those suttas where it occurs?
Anyway, I think it is obvious you get a better job done while in 4th rather than in first jhāna...
By the way, it is stated in Abhidamma (see A comprehensive manual of Abhidhamma, BB) that awareness of foulness stops at first jhāna. I still don't understand how one could enter nibbāna (the state where no physical, verbal nor mental sankhara comes up) while generating thoughts about foulness of the material world.
Chula wrote:Dukkhanirodha wrote:So I'm not talking about sensual thoughts. I'm talking about deep rooted sankharas of clinging to the body which manifest themselves among others as sexual sensations, but also various kind of sensations in different chakras, in the chest, on the hara point, perineum etc.
Since withdrawing from sensuality is a factor of jhāna, I find it implausible that you can experience feelings of the five sense bases while in jhāna..
Are you sure you actually read my answers? I stated earlier that I think I fall from the jhāna state because of the power of these sankharas. I cannot enter jhāna for now because of that, and that is why I stated earlier I thought jhāna was not attainable without abandoning sexuality.
By the way, I'm not quite sure of anything now, so the time has come for me to stop discussing matters about which I'm still uncertain and refocus on my practice : )