Food for thought: the Occidental monk in Thailand...

[appicchato]

https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B49vTm07mMVTOGU5MDU5MjctZDI1My00OGI0LTgyYjgtMzA5OTYyZDhjMGVi&hl=en

[Ben]

Hi Bhante

Unfortunately, this is what I get when I click on your link:

Sorry, the page (or document) you have requested is not available.

metta

Ben

[appicchato]

Hi Ben...but it came up for me in this version...give it a go...

western-monks-presentation5.pdf

(187.92 KiB) Downloaded 252 times

[Guy]

Thanks Venerable!

[tiltbillings]

The comments by Ven Sumedho are quite interesting and can be applied to more than just those who ordain.

Thanks for posting this.

[Cittasanto]

Thank-you Bhante!

tilt - Sumedho emphasises the samana (renunciate) life, not so much the life of a 'monastic' (fully ordained,) there was a quote regarding the Bhikkhunis (cant remember if it was him or the general WPP sangha) where Ajahn Chah taught in the style of 'good enough' i.e., is this good enough to reach enlightenment . . . and I think that will be what is being emphasised by him there.

[Ben]

Thank you Bhante!

[Cittasanto]

Quick question,
I have asked this before a while ago but can't remember the responce or the thread it was with to look it up!

footnote 5, as one of many instances says ibid., p... what is ibid??

[appicchato]

ibid...short for ibidem (Latin)...'in the same place'...

[Cittasanto]

Ah right so all the ibid refferences are to the book, essay etc last mentioned?

[kayy]

Yep, that's right Manapa.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings bhante,

Thank you for posting this - very interesting and very useful.

Actually, bhante, if you don't mind me asking and only if you feel comfortable speaking on the subject...

As someone who has indeed moved from the U.S. to Thailand to become a bhikkhu, what do you think of the article? Do your experiences in any way relate to those of the others mentioned? Unlike the others, you're still in Thailand... so seemingly your perspective is a bit different.



Metta,
Retro.

[Cittasanto]

Thanks Kayy for the confirmation! better to know than to be lost I have a word doc with all the titbits of useful info from Dhammawheel now so I don't keep asking the same questions which are off topic or having to look for suggested practices others have found useful etc....

It would be very interesting to know of your experiences, or thoughts/what other westerners have expressed, in contrast to the essay bhante!

particularly regarding this section!

Aside from the language and cultural gap, one of the main reasons why Western monks are unable to integrate fully into Thai monastic life is their ideal vision of a universal Buddhism. These Western monks grapple with how to negotiate between the ideal and the real. When they are able to integrate traditional aspects of Buddhism, they do so with a pragmatic attitude.

[appicchato]

As someone who has indeed moved from the U.S. to Thailand to become a bhikkhu, what do you think of the article? Do your experiences in any way relate to those of the others mentioned? Unlike the others, you're still in Thailand... so seemingly your perspective is a bit different.

Hi Paul,

Out of the gate...I didn't come to Thailand to ordain...I was here more than twenty-five years prior to ordaining...I found the article interesting, although that's about the extent of it...most of it doesn't apply to me, as I don't consider myself converted, constructing (the ideal, as opposed to the real), nor do I consider myself a missionizer (sic)...I didn't have a problem integrating because I'd already 'gone native', more or less...there was no conflict between wants and expectations...and re-integration doesn't apply (yet, and hopefully won't)...probably what struck me most, if anything, was the wants and expectations noted...to me, for anyone considering ordination, those should be on the back burner...way back...off the stove actually...

Be well friend...

Manapa...I wouldn't be able to comment really because I don't associate with western monks, not by choice, it just doesn't occur...and I have no view of universal Buddhism...I try to go with the flow wherever I am...

[Cittasanto]

As someone who has indeed moved from the U.S. to Thailand to become a bhikkhu, what do you think of the article? Do your experiences in any way relate to those of the others mentioned? Unlike the others, you're still in Thailand... so seemingly your perspective is a bit different.

Hi Paul,

Out of the gate...I didn't come to Thailand to ordain...I was here more than twenty-five years prior to ordaining...I found the article interesting, although that's about the extent of it...most of it doesn't apply to me, as I don't consider myself converted, constructing (the ideal, as opposed to the real), nor do I consider myself a missionizer (sic)...I didn't have a problem integrating because I'd already 'gone native', more or less...there was no conflict between wants and expectations...and re-integration doesn't apply (yet, and hopefully won't)...probably what struck me most, if anything, was the wants and expectations noted...to me, for anyone considering ordination, those should be on the back burner...way back...off the stove actually...

Be well friend...

Manapa...I wouldn't be able to comment really because I don't associate with western monks, not by choice, it just doesn't occur...and I have no view of universal Buddhism...I try to go with the flow wherever I am...

Hi Bhante!
you actually answered my question perfectly! (underlined the part/s)
maybe not what I was thinking of as a response but very helpful, and something I have been (semi)grappling with recently.

after saying that, there is another part of the essay which springs to mind now, and without going through it again, so using my own words, did you have a sense of coming home when you arrived, and ordained, only one, or both?

[appicchato]

...did you have a sense of coming home when you arrived, and ordained, only one, or both?

Not so much 'coming home' as 'striking gold'...on both counts...

[retrofuturist]

Thanks bhante.



Metta,
Paul.