Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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retrofuturist
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:22 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:40 am


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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby BlackBird » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:14 am

Few posts back there was some talk about two wings of a bird.

I'd like to point everyone who has 20 minutes up their sleeve to . Pretty good, relevant stuff.

metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

meindzai
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby meindzai » Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:40 pm

BTW, this whole thing is why I theorized in my earlier thread that really what "technique" you do doesn't even matter that much. Just as long as you are doing something, and as long as, in the beginning, you are doing it consistently. And the more the better. Yeah, I know, if you have time to be mindful.... :tongue: Still - I have tried the "everything is meditation" attitude and it doesn't seem to be as effective as "just stop watching TV and do more meditation already."

Anyway, from reading so many suttas where the Buddha talked about a bhikkhu going out into the forest and attaining Jhana, it always seemed to follow from virtuous activity, not the technique he was doing.

-DaveK (Babbly from being snowed in at work for 3 days)

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby DorjePhurba » Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:34 pm

I have to say that I am glad that many of you have responded to my question. As far as how IFeel at the moment I think I'm leaning more towards trying to attain jhana since it does seem that gaining insigjt is best done through jhanic concentration. I think the main thing that has confused me is the tradition of the Vissudimagga. I just don't see that as something that conforms with the suttas. It seems that is the main reason why people do
not practice jhana more. People are told its basically out of reach for them, which seems to be untrue.

I'm curious though as to whether the vipassana jhanas could he considered the same as the suttic jhanas. Could anyone provide any insight? (no pun intended)

Meindzai, I would say that what medotation style you choose carries quite a bit of importance because it really determines which way your practice will go. If you are trying to attain jhana, then you need to keep your mind focused on an object and to be mindful of any hindrances. Should any arise, then the meditator applys the antidotes to get rid of them. If one were doing Vipassana alone, then a person might focus on the three marks of existence in each thought thay arises rather than focus on one thought. Both have their usefulness, but I think lead to different places.

I look forward to everyones continued input as I think this is a question that a lot of people are asking themselves too.

With metta,
Chris

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby meindzai » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:05 pm


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Collective
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Collective » Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:14 pm

What are the different techniques of Samhadi (or do I mean Shamatha?) and Vipassana?

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:26 pm


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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby jcsuperstar » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:13 pm

tilt, i always value your contributions, your erudition never ceases to amaze me.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:27 pm


Freawaru
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Freawaru » Fri Feb 12, 2010 12:37 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:44 pm

_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 12, 2010 1:47 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:02 pm

Good to know!

I wouldn't know a jackal from a wolf anymore than a weasel from a ferret... :embarassed:
_/|\_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:36 pm

Attachments
pup.jpg
pup.jpg (58.04 KiB) Viewed 1652 times
babe.jpg
babe.jpg (5.19 KiB) Viewed 1652 times
bab.jpg
bab.jpg (18.18 KiB) Viewed 1652 times
baby.jpg
baby.jpg (9.8 KiB) Viewed 1652 times
babies.jpg
babies.jpg (23.89 KiB) Viewed 1652 times

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tiltbillings
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:42 pm

Please excuse the canine and mustelid excursus. Now back to our regularly scheduled programs: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question, brought to you by Sidebars R Us.

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Dan74
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Dan74 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 2:53 pm

Hmmm.... thanks Tilt, but I think I'll sooner figure our vipassana vs shamatha... still the pics are gorgeous - I will show them to the kids tomorrow!

Sorry :focus:

_/|\_
_/|\_

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Moggalana » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:30 pm

Let it come. Let it be. Let it go.

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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby Modus.Ponens » Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:30 pm

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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IanAnd
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Re: Shamatha or Vipassana? That is the question

Postby IanAnd » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:08 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV


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