Vipassana or Anapanasati?

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.

Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:42 am

Does anyone have a summary of the differences between Vipassana and Anapanasati?

Thank :namaste: you
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:52 am

Hi Collective,

This is a huge topic, which we've discussed at various times:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3584
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3539
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1997
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3019

Here's my take on it (based on teachers I respect):
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... t=0#p43682
What is the connection with meditation? Here I quoted U Pandita:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1311#p18145

Ānāpānasati can take two directions. If the meditator strives to be mindful of the form or manner of the in-breath and the out-breath, then it is samatha meditation and leads to one pointed of mind. On the other hand, if the meditator notes the sensation of the in-breath and out-breath as it moves and touches, then it is vipassanā meditation. The element of wind or motion (vayo-dhātu) is rūpa or matter, while the awareness or consciousness of the sensation is nāma or mind.


I.e. insight involves examining paramattha dhammas, not concepts. However, as U Pandida indicates, concepts are useful for samatha.


Metta
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:49 am

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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby baratgab » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:41 am

Collective wrote:Does anyone have a summary of the differences between Vipassana and Anapanasati?

Thank :namaste: you


I guess my recommendations are starting to be rather one-sided (from "dry vipassana" perspective), but I just listened to a talk from Ajahn Brahmali on this subject, and I found it quite good. If you are interested in an easily understandable, but comprehensive and insightful talk regarding the role and relation of these aspects of meditation, you might want to check it out; it's just 50 minutes long:

Samatha and Vipassana

:anjali:
"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby puthujjana » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:25 am

Ven. Dhammajiva wrote:"A yogi can practice both insight meditation and concentration meditation (vipassanã and samatha bhavanã) well within ãnãpãnasati bhavanã (mindfulness of the in-breath and the out-breath)..."

http://nissaranawanaya.wordpress.com/how-to-meditate/

http://vipassana.com/meditation/dhammajiva/index.php


:anjali:
"Once you understand anatta, then the burden of life is gone. You’ll be at peace with the world. When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness and we can truly be happy."
- Ajahn Chah
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:11 pm

Thank you all very much
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:46 am

Should eyes be open or closed?

I thought nothing of this as most of what I read and/or heard said eyes open.

Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'. Which is it?
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby bodom » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:48 am

Collective wrote:Should eyes be open or closed?

I thought nothing of this as most of what I read and/or heard said eyes open.

Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'. Which is it?


Which do you prefer?

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:03 am

Collective wrote:Should eyes be open or closed?

I thought nothing of this as most of what I read and/or heard said eyes open.

Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'. Which is it?


I find that open eyes can be distractive. The image starts to blur, I don't know where to focus my eyes... With my eyes closed I don't have these problems.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:09 am

Greetings Collective,

Collective wrote:Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'.


That's a pretty impressive achievement.... :lol:

Seriously though, my experience has been like Modus.Ponens's. In fact, the eyes just want to close on their own and it becomes more comfortable to keep them closed.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:33 am

bodom wrote:
Collective wrote:Should eyes be open or closed?

I thought nothing of this as most of what I read and/or heard said eyes open.

Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'. Which is it?


Which do you prefer?

:anjali:

Definitely eyes closed. Easier to focus :meditate:
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:33 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
Collective wrote:Should eyes be open or closed?

I thought nothing of this as most of what I read and/or heard said eyes open.

Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'. Which is it?


I find that open eyes can be distractive. The image starts to blur, I don't know where to focus my eyes... With my eyes closed I don't have these problems.

Exactly how I feel
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:35 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Collective,

Collective wrote:Lately though I've been reading 'eyes closed'.


That's a pretty impressive achievement.... :lol:

:lol: Good one

retrofuturist wrote:Seriously though, my experience has been like Modus.Ponens's. In fact, the eyes just want to close on their own and it becomes more comfortable to keep them closed.

Metta,
Retro. :)

I think my next session will be eyes closed too. Comes as a bit of relief as well as there's less distractions.
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby PeterB » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:26 am

Collective, there comes a point where we can start confusing ourselves. We can ask for advice about the broad-brush approaches to different practices. But eventually it comes down to trial and error and what works for us. And that might differ from person to person. It is understandible that we should want all our ducks lined up before we start, but doesnt actually work that way.
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:40 pm

Just sat for 20 minutes, eyes closed, and it was different.

After I'd settled, I got mental images, probably just the mind playing tricks. Iwasn't tired, like dozing off, but I was relaxed. I couldn't make out anything definite, just a lot of fuzzy images. I also felt nauseous at one point, and I also got the subtle feeling of spinning? I think at one point I also expereinced a slight pressure in my chest which disconcerted me for a brief while - but I son got back to the breath.

It was all in all though, an enjoyable expereince, different from open eyes meditation. Different in the ways described above.

Thank you
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Kenshou » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:48 pm

That all sounds pretty typical, Collective. When your eyes are closed, many bodily sensations can seem much more intense than usual, sometimes quite odd. The longer and more you sit, the more unfamiliar and disconcerting feelings tend to evaporate as the mind stills. And still other feelings more intense but pleasant can arise.

Just keep watching that breath!
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Re: Vipassana or Anapanasati?

Postby Collective » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:47 pm

Kenshou wrote:That all sounds pretty typical, Collective. When your eyes are closed, many bodily sensations can seem much more intense than usual, sometimes quite odd. The longer and more you sit, the more unfamiliar and disconcerting feelings tend to evaporate as the mind stills. And still other feelings more intense but pleasant can arise.

Just keep watching that breath!

Will do

And thank you :)
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