Don't do this...

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Don't do this...

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:40 pm

Hi all

I've decided to add the newspaper article as a caution against those of you who may want radical weight loss as portrayed on programs like "The Biggest Loser". The program being talked about in the following article, is Australia's version of the program. If any of you are desirous of radical weight loss - discuss it with your doctor or dietitian.
kind regards

Ben

GROSSLY overweight, out of condition and addicted to junk food. This year's Biggest Loser contestants were a sorry bunch when their weight loss ''journey'' began screening a fortnight ago. Many tipped the scales at more than 170 kilograms.

Now, just weeks after taking up exercise, participants in Channel Ten's hit weight loss show are preparing for a marathon.

In a move that has horrified sports physicians, contestants will tackle the gruelling 42 kilometre road race after only 11 weeks of training.

This man wants to be the biggest loser: http://www.theage.com.au/national/this- ... -nyiu.html
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Guy » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:55 pm

Although their intentions are good (the contestants) it is unfortunate that these people are willingly being used like circus animals by the TV producers presumably for ratings.
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Ben » Sat Feb 13, 2010 11:59 pm

Hi Guy
I couldn't agree more. I confess to having watched one or two episodes of the original US series when it first came out. I stopped because I noticed within myself voyeurism and shaudenfreude manifesting.
kind regards

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:48 am

not very PC this but at least in the old fashioned freak shows they knew what they were there for (and got paid.)
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:01 am

Manapa wrote:not very PC this but at least in the old fashioned freak shows they knew what they were there for (and got paid.)

I really don't think anything has changed, then.
:juggling:
... Except that these people do presumably have options for alternative employment, which means they have a bit more freedom.
Really, 'Reality TV' ought to be on the list of classic oxymorons, with 'military intelligence' and 'economic rationalism'.
:stirthepot:

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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:47 am

Try to put down the entire burden of the five aggregates, not just a few kilos.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:53 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Try to put down the entire burden of the five aggregates, not just a few kilos.


Wise words indeed Bhante. But for many of us, our motivation for physical wellbeing maybe so that we can continue to walk on the path for as long as possible during this rare human rebirth.
metta

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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Mawkish1983 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 7:36 am

At this stage, unfortunately, for me it's just about a fear of death. Here's hoping I get over that soon :)
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Butrfly_Nirvana » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:04 am

I don't know about the rest of you here, but for me since learning and being mindful in applying the Middle Path, I have actually found myself not over eating, or eating junk. Mainly because I'm seeing it as cravings, that cause suffering...the result? I'm now in my 8th month of pregnancy and have only put on 10 pounds! :) I am eating really healthy and paying attention to serving sizes. I don't miss the junk, and while others are amazed by this, it just makes sense.

I feel bad for the people on these shows because obviously something is not right within their lives/selves besides the numbers on the scales. I think that if they were to instead be shown the lessons Buddha taught they could find the same comfort we have, and in effect apply it and see even more lasting results. Just my two cents.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Ben » Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:20 am

Nice observation BN.
No doubt, obesity is just a symptom of a much deeper problem.
kind regards

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: Don't do this...

Postby baratgab » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:49 am

Butrfly_Nirvana wrote:I feel bad for the people on these shows because obviously something is not right within their lives/selves besides the numbers on the scales. I think that if they were to instead be shown the lessons Buddha taught they could find the same comfort we have, and in effect apply it and see even more lasting results. Just my two cents.


The sad thing is that, apart from the extreme cases, it's not that much about overeating, but about a wrong cultural conditioning regarding what to eat and in what ratio. :( In almost all of the recent traditional cultures, in the past 10 000 years or more, people lived on mostly starches (like grains and potato), vegetables and fruits, and they didn't have any problem with obesity; or with any other ills of civilization, for that matter. Even today this can be (and has been) verified in the rural areas of the eastern countries.

The metabolic pathway of transforming carbohydrates into fat is called "de novo lipogenesis", and it doesn't work well in humans. We tend to burn the extra calories from carbohydrates with the process of thermogenesis, that is, as body heat. On the other hand, fat can be readily stored by the body as fat. And there is a conflict between carbohydrates and fats. Since carbohydrate is the preferred energy source of the body, the presence of sugars and starches in the diet prevents the usage of the fat depositories, and at the same time encourages the deposition of dietary fat in the fatty tissue. The main agent of this process is insulin, which is also the main agent in the carbohydrate metabolism. This is the half-truth basis for the low-carb diets like the Atkins. But the truth is that the macronutrient what people should reduce in the diet is not carbohydrate, but fat. We have very little actual fat-requirements in adulthood, and it is just for omega-6 and omega-3 fats, like the omega-3 fat ALA, which can be converted by the body to EPA and DHA (though, the current excess consumption of omega-6 fats, i.e. as vegetable oils, hinders this metabolic pathway).

Basically, if one follows a carbohydrates-based diet, there is no need to limit the food-intake or to do strenuous exercises just for the sake of keeping a healthy body weight. The problem with the "low-fat" diet is that they are usually not "low-fat" at all, due to the culturally conditioned inclusion of heaps and heaps of animal-based foods and refined fatty products, like margarine and vegetable oils. Most (staple) unprocessed plant-based foods have naturally low fat content, and a lot of fiber, resulting in less calorie-density.

According to my best understanding, the science is already pretty clear on this subject, backed up with not just theoretical knowledge, but also with epidemiological studies and controlled experiments. There are some minor conflicting organizations, like the Atkins group, the Weston Price Foundation and some interest-groups of the big-businesses (i.e. Center for Consumer Freedom). But the main issue is that nutrition, burdened with habits and consumerism, is a huge boat that needs a lot of time to change direction. Even with the tobacco case, we needed several decades to get from the "advertisements with doctors" state to the "banned in public places and sold with warnings" state. Meanwhile, people suffer, and often blame themselves needlessly.
"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Pax » Sun Feb 14, 2010 1:54 pm

baratgab - very interesting post, I'll have to do some more reading...thank you.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby alan » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:26 pm

Oh my. Baratgab's post is so distressingly inaccurate I just want to run out of the room and scream.
Look up thermogenesis on Google. Investigate for yourself the different fats.
Most (fat) Americans follow a high carb diet, it is the bane of modern culture.
Sorry to be abrupt, it would be better to go point-by-point with a counter argument, but I'm not sure anyone cares enough to read it.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby baratgab » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:29 pm

Pax wrote:baratgab - very interesting post, I'll have to do some more reading...thank you.


I think it's a very good idea to research this subject; there are much to learn and earn, especially if you are interested in the ethical and environmental aspects too. By the way, if you have some heart problems or type-2 diabetes, I can suggest some specific sources about dietary ways to arrest and reverse them; in matter of months in the first case, and, I think, in matter of weeks in the second case. Biologically plausible explanations and supporting scientific literature given; used by practicing physicians on real patients with success; can be tried out without any dangers, and there are no drugs or any other "wonder" products to buy. Feel free to PM me. :smile:

Though, it bears to mention, again (especially after seeing alan's post), that there are views on nutrition that are almost completely opposed to my view (and incidentally, to many universally accepted scientific theories too). I can't really comment on the Atkins and Weston folks, and I won't argue with or about them. I believe it is up to each individual to find out where is the validity. This is like the Theravada/Mahayana/Vajrayana thing in Buddhism; or maybe a much valid parallel is the issue of climate change vs. climate skeptics. :smile:
Last edited by baratgab on Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Butrfly_Nirvana » Sun Feb 14, 2010 3:44 pm

While I am certain there are 'baseline' rules/guidelines for human nutrition, don't forget that each person may have different needs or requirements. Not all women are pregnant, not all people have heart conditions or diabetes, and so on. So basically it should be encouraged that every person research what is the basic guidelines for eating healthy, add in to that mix whatever specific needs or concerns they personally have, and then select the best method/style/diet/etc that works for them, and of course, do it in accordance to the Middle Path (in other words don't beat yourself up for an 'off' day that included two slices of pie instead of one!). :)
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Vardali » Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:44 pm

With regard to the original post, I have been abstaining from watching "reality-soap" shows of any kind; or to be more accurate, I don't really watch any TV anymore. Just as a general note, I learned from my nephew who works for one of our major casting firms for such shows how much of it is really "real" and how much is fake/staged. And obviously, though the contestants have a rough idea of what they are getting themselves into, I guess the reality of that does surprise one or the other. Some make a profession out of it, though.

With regard to diet: I can just go by personal experience, so I am not claiming any scientific explanation. But simply put, I found that I will put on weight no matter how small the calorie intake if I eat high carbohydrate-based food (and in particular stuff like potatoes, bread or pasta) and I lose weight on a low carb diet. I usually avoid processed foods either way, but this difference between high carb foods and low carb foods have become so prominent for me that I have been using carb counts as a pretty successful means to weight control.

As I am trying to conform to a mostly vegan style of diet (there are some relapses to dairy products and eggs now and then), minimizing carbs is not that easy, but works well enough with beans, nuts and seats, regardless of any fat-content.

The most obese people I know are actually those focusing on buying diet-food (low fat, diet/light versions etc.). I won't suggest what comes first here, but it's noticeable enough to make you wonder :shrug:
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Pax » Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:56 pm

baratgab wrote:
I think it's a very good idea to research this subject; there are much to learn and earn, especially if you are interested in the ethical and environmental aspects too. By the way, if you have some heart problems or type-2 diabetes, I can suggest some specific sources about dietary ways to arrest and reverse them; in matter of months in the first case, and, I think, in matter of weeks in the second case.

I'm one of the lucky heavy people in the world, I'm very healthy (low BP/cholesterol/heart rate/blood sugar), I do need to lower my weight though as it is hard on my damaged joints.

I read The China Study a few years ago and began altering my diet significantly, it has proven to work for me so I'll continue to make the suggested modifications.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:55 am

...and the missing magic ingredient in the last half dozen posts, is ...

EXERCISE

If energy intake is greater than energy consumption, you put on weight.
If energy intake is less than energy consumption, you lose weight.

In the 'traditional cultures' someone mentioned, everyone basically walked everywhere. They also planted, hoed, threshed, stored and processed all their crops without any machine power or even much animal power.
Energy consumption was so much greater than in our modern western lifestyle that they could usually eat as much food as they could get and still not put on much weight.

:namaste:
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Pax » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:20 pm

I thought we were discussing what constitutes a healthy diet? Exercise is a given, but exercise needs proper quality nutrition in order to develop/maintain health.
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Re: Don't do this...

Postby Kim OHara » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:09 am

Pax wrote:I thought we were discussing what constitutes a healthy diet? Exercise is a given, but exercise needs proper quality nutrition in order to develop/maintain health.

I know we were talking about healthy diet, and don't want to hijack the thread, but exercise had not even been mentioned recently and it is just as fundamental to the original topic, i.e. weight loss or gain, as diet.
If you eat more than you use, you get fatter.
Very simple, very easy to remember, but I see so many people who choose not to know it or not to remember it. Australia is following the US into a lifestyle-caused obesity epidemic and it is so sad and so unnecessary.
It is going to be 'so expensive', too, in a few years - to obese individuals as their health worsens and to the rest of us as we pay for more healthcare facilities.
:namaste:
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