Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

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Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby adosa » Sat Feb 13, 2010 4:03 pm

Hi all,

A thought occurred to me after reading through the link below (thanks Mike in NZ) that maybe, for some of us lay followers, we should consider transitioning more towards meditations of recollections. Scanning through this forum I found very little on this approach.

For me personally, my concern is that I could sit twice daily practicing various forms of vipassana for years to come and never glean any real insight. Any thoughts on the bolded and underlined section below. Would abiding in this state during meditation eventually lead one to the door of stream entry. If not would it would this state at least lead one to become a better human being. Admittedly that is my primary goal with the thinking that this is all I can really control. Whether insight or not arises happens, well..... Would this lead to an improved chance of rebirth in a state where the Dhamma could once again be approached? Thoughts? Any advice on the nuts and bolts of this practice?

the Buddha shows how the lay disciple takes up one of the six objects of recollection (cha anussati): the Three Jewels, morality, generosity, and the devas. As the disciple recollects each theme, his mind is not obsessed by lust, hatred, or delusion, but becomes upright (ujugata): "With an unright mind he gains the inspiration of the goal, the inspiration of the Dhamma, gladness connected with the Dhamma. When he is gladdened rapture arises, his body becomes tranquil, and he experiences happiness. For one who is happy the mind becomes concentrated."


http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha267.htm


thanks in advance,


adosa :smile:
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby bodom » Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:04 pm

I have always found this sutta on recollections to be very inspiring.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:20 pm

Hi Adosa,

I think some here chant various recollections every day. I don't generally do that, but the weekly sunday refuge/precept chanting we do at the Wat includes recalling the qualities of the Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#evening
Itipi so bhagavā arahaṃ sammā-sambuddho,
He is a Blessed One, a Worthy One, a Rightly Self-awakened One,
...

The Morning Chant http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#morning which I usually participate in when on a retreat, has various reflections.

The chanting group I attended in Hong Kong a few years ago used to go through various recollections, such as those here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

There are various chants here: http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/media_download/C20
I sometimes listen to them on my MP3 player...

Metta
Mike
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby Freawaru » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:31 pm

adosa wrote:Hi all,

A thought occurred to me after reading through the link below (thanks Mike in NZ) that maybe, for some of us lay followers, we should consider transitioning more towards meditations of recollections. Scanning through this forum I found very little on this approach.

For me personally, my concern is that I could sit twice daily practicing various forms of vipassana for years to come and never glean any real insight. Any thoughts on the bolded and underlined section below. Would abiding in this state during meditation eventually lead one to the door of stream entry. If not would it would this state at least lead one to become a better human being. Admittedly that is my primary goal with the thinking that this is all I can really control. Whether insight or not arises happens, well..... Would this lead to an improved chance of rebirth in a state where the Dhamma could once again be approached? Thoughts? Any advice on the nuts and bolts of this practice?

the Buddha shows how the lay disciple takes up one of the six objects of recollection (cha anussati): the Three Jewels, morality, generosity, and the devas. As the disciple recollects each theme, his mind is not obsessed by lust, hatred, or delusion, but becomes upright (ujugata): "With an unright mind he gains the inspiration of the goal, the inspiration of the Dhamma, gladness connected with the Dhamma. When he is gladdened rapture arises, his body becomes tranquil, and he experiences happiness. For one who is happy the mind becomes concentrated."


http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha267.htm


thanks in advance,


adosa :smile:


Hi,

I think that trinity "lust, hatred, or delusion" is the explicit "craving", the reaction to the vedana (feeling) trinity "pleasant feelings, painful feelings, and neither-painful-nor-pleasant feelings". So it does not refer to the usual hate (a person or whatever) or to lust (for chocolote or whatever) but a much deeper craving.

When feeling a pleasant
feeling, he feels it as if detached, remote & alien. it. When feeling a painful feeling,
he also feels this as if detached, remote & alien. If he feels a neither-painful-nor-
pleasant feeling, he feels even that neutrality as if something detached, remote & alien....
This, bhikkhus, is called a Noble Disciple, who is released from birth, aging, and death!
http://what-buddha-said.net/drops/II/Bo ... eeling.htm


So too, when the instructed
Noble Disciple is contacted by a painful feeling, then he feels one feeling: A bodily pain,
but not any mental frustration. Touched by that same painful feeling, he neither develops
nor maintains any aversion towards it! Since he develops no aversion towards any painful
feeling, the latent tendency to aversion towards painful feeling does not grow deeper...!


The term "aversion" here is the same as the "hate" in your quote.
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby baratgab » Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:35 pm

If you mean meditative recollection, then by settling the awareness on the Three Jewels (or other objects that you respect), you are directly cultivating the positive mental qualities of selflessness, kindness and peace. At the same time you are letting go much of the unskillful or useless mental activities that we consider normal in our daily life. So, yes, in my opinion, the recollection, as a meditation practice, will definitely lead to the development of the faculties. :smile:

But, in my view, you effectively do the same thing with every kind of meditation that the Buddha taught: You make peace with the conditions, by letting go of the controlling "I", therefore reducing the causes of ignorance and fortifying the ability of clear comprehension. In this way, skillful qualities grow and fill the mind, until the complete, but temporary subsiding of the unskillful qualities. Due to this growing and subsiding, even if you don't meditate to be happy, you feel much ease, joy and energy. The only notable difference that I can currently think of is that at the deeper stages of unification, the mind can't hold onto any complex recollection, because of the breaking down of the normal thought process.

If you are interested, I can recommend you two guided loving-kindness meditation talks:
http://www.bswa.org/modules/mydownloads ... 42&lid=715 (from this folder)
http://www.bswa.org/modules/mydownloads ... 74&lid=904 (from this folder)

:anjali:
"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby adosa » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:30 pm

Thanks all for the replies.

Do you think the same is accomplished when reading the suttas with a degree of concentration....that being not obsessed by lust, hated, and greed? Would reading selected suttas, or sections of suttas, and reciting them during meditation yield the same results?

adosa :smile:
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183
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Re: Recollection meditations and the lay follower. Qs?

Postby Virgo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:49 pm

adosa wrote:Hi all,

A thought occurred to me after reading through the link below (thanks Mike in NZ) that maybe, for some of us lay followers, we should consider transitioning more towards meditations of recollections. Scanning through this forum I found very little on this approach.

For me personally, my concern is that I could sit twice daily practicing various forms of vipassana for years to come and never glean any real insight.
adosa :smile:

That is because wisdom does not see the anatta aspect of the attachment to practice, or to the attachment to the outcome of practice, and the desire to practice whenever it arises. Why? Because there has not been proper hearing and reflection upon the dhamma. Therefore, it is impossible for wisdom to arise without it's supporting factors.

Kevin
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