Nibbana and death

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Nibbana and death

Postby char101 » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:24 pm

Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death. Would like to hear second opinion on this :smile:
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby bodom » Sat Feb 20, 2010 3:56 pm

char101 wrote:Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death.


Only if there's an "I" "me" or "mine" who dies.


:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby Kenshou » Sat Feb 20, 2010 7:57 pm

I've thought about this too. It seems that parinibbana is the same as death from a materialistic standpoint. Unbinding, breaking up of the process, though yes, no "being" dies and all that. I guess the thing about the Buddhist perspective is that it doesn't finally happen until you're actually ready for it, which is nice if it's true.
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:54 pm

char101 wrote:Hi,

Assuming there is no rebirth after death, then parinibbana is the same as death. Would like to hear second opinion on this :smile:

Hi,

please tell me what you mean with "death"?

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

:anjali:
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby char101 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:18 am

@bodom

But there is mind and body which cease to exist after parinibbana and death (if there is no such thing as rebirh). Or is nibbana something more that just the cease of existence?

@Kenshou

No "being" but there is mind and body since it's the realities of a being. I think unexistence is not so much a better option than eternal suffering in samsara. Stastically speaking, from a large number of rebirth cycle, the percentage of suffering and happiness we got is probaby 50/50 ;)

@acinteyyo

If there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of nama and rupa. It seems to me that parinibbana where mind and body totaly cease to exist is the same as death if there is no such thing as rebirth. Is nibbana only a total ending or is there anything that continue to exist?
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:19 am

Greetings Char101,

Try reading this Sutta carefully:
MN 72: Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta — To Vacchagotta on Fire
The Buddha explains to a wanderer why he does not hold any speculative views. Using the simile of an extinguished fire he illustrates the destiny of the liberated being.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Metta
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Re: Nibbana and death

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:26 am

char101 wrote:@acinteyyo

If there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of nama and rupa. It seems to me that parinibbana where mind and body totaly cease to exist is the same as death if there is no such thing as rebirth. Is nibbana only a total ending or is there anything that continue to exist?

You say "death means total cessation of nama+rupa" but I suppose what you really wanted to say is "death means the total cessation of myself" or rather "if there is no rebirth, then death means total cessation of myself", don't you? It seems so refering to your post on the Thread "The value of nibbana". This sounds to me that you think you are nama+rupa, and when nama+rupa ceases you would be annihilated. But nama+rupa is anatta, one shall not consider nama+rupa as "mine, I am this, this is my-self". Nibbana is the cessation of greed, hatred and delusion.
What do you mean with "is there anything that continues to exist?"
Take a look at the Kotthita Sutta (AN IV.174) to see how the Buddha answers the question, "What lies beyond Nibbana?"


best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Api cāhaṃ, āvuso, imasmiṃyeva byāmamatte kaḷevare, sasaññimhi samanake lokañca paññāpemi lokasamudayañca lokanirodhañca lokanirodhagāminiñca paṭipadan. (AN4.45)

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