Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

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AdvaitaJ
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Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby AdvaitaJ » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:18 am

It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:

To someone living in the Buddha's time, would they not have thought our existence today qualifies as divine and that all of us who live this lifestyle today are truly benefiting from vast amounts of positive kamma?

Is there anything in the suttas that says rebirth happens immediately on death? What if "time" is literally not a factor and a positive rebirth is actually achieved by being born now or even 500 years from now (assuming we don't trash the place between now and then ;) )?

:coffee:

AdvaitaJ
The birds have vanished down the sky. Now the last cloud drains away.
We sit together, the mountain and me, until only the mountain remains.
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bodom
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Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby bodom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:58 pm

Theres too much suffering here for this to be heaven.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

Heavenstorm
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Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby Heavenstorm » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:12 pm

AdvaitaJ wrote:It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:


Wrong, [some] people living [in certain regions] are notably worse than animals. Some humans may live like devas but they are still humans and is subject to occasional illness, hunger and unfortunate accidents. The last time I read, deva is immune to illness, hunger and accidents.


[Replaced offensive generalizations — Dhammanando]

Individual
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Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby Individual » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:46 pm

No, we're not devas. I had a similar speculation, myself, but when you look at Buddhist cosmology, it's pretty clear we aren't. The various cosmologies, though, I think are best understood as overlapping. The human realm does seem to be somewhat special in that we share characteristics of many realms and mentally gravitate towards different realms. So, some aspects of our life is "like" the various six realms, but despite that, we are not beings of those other realms, just as dogs and monkeys aren't humans.

Heavenstorm wrote:
AdvaitaJ wrote:It occurs to me that the existence many of us lead in this technologically advanced world could seem like we are Devas and this is heaven. Imagine telling someone 2,500 years ago that you can travel 600 miles in one hour. Or that you can speak and hear someone on the other side of the planet. That you've never been hungry. That you can make things frozen or boiling hot as you wish. TV, stereos, computers, and on and on and on. :alien:


Wrong, [some] people living [in certain regions] are notably worse than animals. Some humans may live like devas but they are still humans and is subject to occasional illness, hunger and unfortunate accidents. The last time I read, deva is immune to illness, hunger and accidents.


[Replaced offensive generalizations — Dhammanando]

I wouldn't say immune to "accidents". They aren't hungry, but they have to eat (some of them at least) and if they forget to eat, they could die.

Brahmajala Sutta

Bhikkhus! There are devas known as Khiddapadosikas who, absorbed in merry-making and pleasure-seeking for a long time, forget to take nutriment and through such forgetfulness die in that abode of the devas.

This could be called "accidental" starvation. I'm sure there's probably other ways they can die, too, like some manner of illness, dying from over-intoxication, etc., but it wouldn't correspond to "illness" as in the human realm.
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:56 pm

If we were devas then nibbana would become even more harder to attain if not impossible as it is only in human existence, with the balance of pain and pleasure can nibbana be found.

:namaste:
“The Great Way is not difficult for those who have no preferences. When love and hate are both absent, everything becomes clear and undisguised." Verses on the Faith Mind, Sengcan

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Re: Is there a chance that we are Devas in Sagga?

Postby bodom » Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:04 pm

If this is heaven then i sure dont wanna see hell.

:namaste:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah


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