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Thinking and Clinging - Dhamma Wheel

Thinking and Clinging

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
jackson
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Thinking and Clinging

Postby jackson » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:11 pm

Hi everyone,
I decided to contemplate thinking today for the last half of my meditation, but I'm having trouble seeing precisely what it is about thought that I'm clinging to. I find that if I'm mindfully watching thoughts, then, as far as I can tell there's no clinging, but when the mind wanders mindfulness is gone so there's no way I can see what is going on. I hope this post is coherent, basically I'm wondering if anyone can point me towards what I could look for so that I may see what it is I'm clinging to that makes my mind go off on a tangent, because as I understand it the only way to let go is to understand what it is you're holding on to. Your help is appreciated!
Metta, :smile:
Jackson
"The heart of the path is quite easy. There’s no need to explain anything at length. Let go of love and hate and let things be. That’s all that I do in my own practice." - Ajahn Chah

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Fede
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby Fede » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:40 pm

I think you think you're clinging, but you're not.
Thinking is obligatory. It's what your mind does.
It's what it's made for. so worrying about clinging to something that your brain is wired and destined to do, is fruitless.
So your brain thinks.
Point being?
Don't over-think clinging to thinking, because we all cling to a whole lot more than that....I think thought-clinging is the least of your problems.....! ;)


:namaste:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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baratgab
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby baratgab » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:01 pm

"Just as in the great ocean there is but one taste — the taste of salt — so in this Doctrine and Discipline there is but one taste — the taste of freedom"

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bodom
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby bodom » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:15 pm

Bahiya Sutta

"Then, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bahiya, there is no you in terms of that. When there is no you in terms of that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

Ud 1.10

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

jackson
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby jackson » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:52 pm

Thankyou for your replies, they've been helpful. I guess I approached this wrongly. That quote that you posted was especially insightful Bodom.
Metta, :smile:
Jackson
"The heart of the path is quite easy. There’s no need to explain anything at length. Let go of love and hate and let things be. That’s all that I do in my own practice." - Ajahn Chah

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retrofuturist
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:36 am

Greetings Jackson,

I would recommend being observant of what is coming through the six sense doors and observing what you consider to be pleasant and what you consider to be unpleasant. Observe also the reaction you have to the pleasant, versus your reaction to the unpleasant. What happens when you respond with equanimity and acceptance, rather than craving for things to become or remain a certain way?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:48 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Goofaholix
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Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby Goofaholix » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:59 am

You watched thoughts with the expectation something would happen, with the expectation that you would be able to observe clinging, this expectation is the very clinging that you were looking for. Well, probably not so much the clinging but the desire which is the precursor to clinging.

So just watch your experience, your thoughts, without expectation and you'll probably find you'll notice much more than you would otherwise, and sometimes not. Insights come when they are ready to, no need to force them, just be open and willing to experiment.

rowyourboat
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Location: London, UK

Re: Thinking and Clinging

Postby rowyourboat » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:09 pm

There are two methods to see what the clinging behind the thoughts are. One is to note the contents of the thought. Thoughts will proliferate around the object which it is trying to cling to or push away from. The other method is to strike thoughts off with another thought like 'anicca!' (impermanant) and then stay focused on the mental 'ground' underneath those thoughts. You will be able to catch the developing craving before it has broken into verbal thought. If you focus on what this feeling is all about (it comes with meaning attached) you will see the object of this craving.
Good luck!

I think a bit of clinging to the practice is a good thing. It is called 'caga'- a 'wholesome' type of clinging which will lead to end of clinging.

With metta

RYB
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha


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