Orca kills third human

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Annapurna
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Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

....his 40 year old trainer in Florida. She, who is said to have loved the Orca dearly was pulled under water and drowned.

An expert says Orcas are highly intelligent, plan well, and know exactly what they're doing. He said it was intentional.

I can understand the Orca's "boredom", or anger about having been held "caged", since 27 years, if I remember that correctly.

What I can't understand is why they let an Orca that has killed before have contact with humans?

And what I can't understand at all is why we must keep such beings as dolphins and whales in cages.

I am using this word intentionally.

Thoughts...?



PS: I can't visit zoos.
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bodom
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by bodom »

Very unfortunate. May everyone involved be well, happy and peaceful.

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
Laurens
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Laurens »

Humans have a very arrogant view that they can do what they like to animals and they often assume some kind of ownership of them. Probably thanks to the Biblical notion that humans are superior and have some kind of ownership over all creatures on earth.

Animals can be dangerous, especially when they are put into situations that are scary for them. If humans want to stop being harmed or killed by dangerous animals then they should stop putting them into situations where the creature might get scared or agitated. I hate to use cliches but if you play with fire...

The human involved was there willingly, the animal was there unwillingly - personally for me its hard to be overly sympathetic. Sure, it's sad that someone was killed, but its going to keep happening until we learn.... And that could be a long process.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
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Fede
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Fede »

we have a local wildlife park, and there animals are cared for and live in as natural a way as possible. Very often, breeding programmes are a useful way of not only studying the instincts and habits of the animal, but it also perpetuates species that are endangered, and that if left in the wild, would face extinction.
The park holds regular shows and gatherings, but these are never to make an animal perform, but to educate the public on the animal's habits, needs and general information on the species.
They never make animals perform, nor use them as an act, for profit.
it's completely educational.

But shows, like the one being gone through, when this woman lost her life....Nope. I hold the same opinion.
Where humans mess with nature, nature has a habit of messing, back.
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

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zavk
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by zavk »

Whenever I read about orca attacks, I'm reminded of the film Free Willy (remember that?). The film does tell a story about how humans tried to free the orca. But at the same time, it also painted an overly romanticized picture of how humans can 'positively' influence animals. Perhaps humans can. But as these attacks show, in the end we really have to respect these animals for what they are.
With metta,
zavk
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by christopher::: »

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009
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Kim OHara
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Kim OHara »

Laurens wrote:Humans have a very arrogant view that they can do what they like to animals and they often assume some kind of ownership of them. Probably thanks to the Biblical notion that humans are superior and have some kind of ownership over all creatures on earth. ...
Yes, I think that's behind our attitudes. Darwin gave us the key to changing our views, but some people are reluctant to accept it. Meanwhile, Buddhism teaches compassion for all sentient creatures, which is far better.
Now I come to think of it, is there anything in the dhamma that says we should give people special treatment that other kinds of animals are not entitled to?

:namaste:
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Annapurna
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

Laurens wrote:Humans have a very arrogant view that they can do what they like to animals and they often assume some kind of ownership of them. Probably thanks to the Biblical notion that humans are superior and have some kind of ownership over all creatures on earth.

Animals can be dangerous, especially when they are put into situations that are scary for them. If humans want to stop being harmed or killed by dangerous animals then they should stop putting them into situations where the creature might get scared or agitated. I hate to use cliches but if you play with fire...

The human involved was there willingly, the animal was there unwillingly - personally for me its hard to be overly sympathetic. Sure, it's sad that someone was killed, but its going to keep happening until we learn.... And that could be a long process.
The human involved was there willingly, the animal was there unwillingly
Yes, that is the core of the issue, plus that it is stronger and 'wild'.

It's not to blame.
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Annapurna
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

Kim O'Hara wrote:Meanwhile, Buddhism teaches compassion for all sentient creatures, which is far better.
:namaste:
Kim
Um....apologies if I add something, just for the sake of justice. :smile:

"One of these days I will ask back the souls of my animals out of your hands, man, " is also in the Bible.

Translates as: WE are answerable for their physical & emotional well being....and if we don't accomplish that, it will have negative results.

:anjali:
Now I come to think of it, is there anything in the dhamma that says we should give people special treatment that other kinds of animals are not entitled to?
Um,....I read that it is more blameworthy (with worse kammic results) to kill a Buddha or Arahant than a "normal" human being, and more blameworthy to kill a human being than let's say, a cat, and more blameworthy to kill a cat than an insect..... :thinking:
Last edited by Annapurna on Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kim OHara
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Kim OHara »

Annapurna wrote:
Kim O'Hara wrote:Now I come to think of it, is there anything in the dhamma that says we should give people special treatment that other kinds of animals are not entitled to?
Um,....I read that it is more blameworthy (with worse kammic results) to kill a Buddha or Arahant than a "normal" human being, and more blameworthy to kill a human being than let's say, a cat, and more blameworthy to kill a cat than an insect..... :thinking:
That is my general impression, too, but I don't remember a specific source for it.
:thinking:

Kim
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Annapurna
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

Fede wrote:we have a local wildlife park, and there animals are cared for and live in as natural a way as possible. Very often, breeding programmes are a useful way of not only studying the instincts and habits of the animal, but it also perpetuates species that are endangered, and that if left in the wild, would face extinction.
The park holds regular shows and gatherings, but these are never to make an animal perform, but to educate the public on the animal's habits, needs and general information on the species.
They never make animals perform, nor use them as an act, for profit.
it's completely educational.

But shows, like the one being gone through, when this woman lost her life....Nope. I hold the same opinion.
Where humans mess with nature, nature has a habit of messing, back.
Thanks, that is a good example, it seems. But most Zoos don't work that way, and I am tortured by seeing those beautiful animals with too little space and always exposed to masses of curious looks.
Where humans mess with nature, nature has a habit of messing, back.
Very true!
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Annapurna
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

zavk wrote:Whenever I read about orca attacks, I'm reminded of the film Free Willy (remember that?). The film does tell a story about how humans tried to free the orca. But at the same time, it also painted an overly romanticized picture of how humans can 'positively' influence animals. Perhaps humans can. But as these attacks show, in the end we really have to respect these animals for what they are.
I do think that we can positively influence animals, think of cats and dogs, but as soon as they become larger and more dangerous, like tigers and elefants, we should be very aware of their potential to strike back, especially when we take essential things from them, such as free will and liberty.

I think we really have to blame ourselves for any damage they might do to us, because we gave them a chance to.

Who is to blame when I pick up a cat, which doesn't want to be picked up and then scratches me ?

I am to blame, because I didn't respect her free will and overruled her with my strenght.

Likewise with an Orca, only that when he strikes it is more than just a scratch on skin.
Clueless Git
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Clueless Git »

Annapurna wrote:I do think that we can positively influence animals, think of cats and dogs, but as soon as they become larger and more dangerous, like tigers and elefants, we should be very aware of their potential to strike back, especially when we take essential things from them, such as free will and liberty.
'Lo Anna :)

Is respecting the nature of animals according to their ability to hurt us commensurate with equanamity?
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Annapurna
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by Annapurna »

'Lo, dear Git, I can't translate your sentence.... :shrug:

Here is an article about the accident.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=we ... fO_iwnJ39Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Orca kills third human

Post by chownah »

Annapurna wrote:
Um,....I read that it is more blameworthy (with worse kammic results) to kill a Buddha or Arahant than a "normal" human being, and more blameworthy to kill a human being than let's say, a cat, and more blameworthy to kill a cat than an insect..... :thinking:
If I remember correctly, there was a discussion on another forum which no longer exists about this and it seems that the only canonical reference (Theravada Canon that is) as to which animals are worst to kill was that the bigger the animal the worse it was....also there was a Mahayana side comment that the more complex the animal was the worse it was but this view was never documented as being in the Theravada Canon.
chownah
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