Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation. Most assume the eyes are shut but some even practice with eyes open. It seems to be an important factor to consider. I wonder if the Buddha shuts his eyes or not when he does sitting meditation. Any clues?
- Goofaholix
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Probably because meditation was a well known practice in the culture of the day so people already had an understanding of the posture to assume.Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation. Most assume the eyes are shut but some even practice with eyes open. It seems to be an important factor to consider. I wonder if the Buddha shuts his eyes or not when he does sitting meditation. Any clues?
But I guess if it were really important he would have explicitly said so it's probably not.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
I thought it wasn't important either until I tried both ways, and it makes a huge difference. So I want to know what the Buddha did.Goofaholix wrote:Probably because meditation was a well known practice in the culture of the day so people already had an understanding of the posture to assume.Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation. Most assume the eyes are shut but some even practice with eyes open. It seems to be an important factor to consider. I wonder if the Buddha shuts his eyes or not when he does sitting meditation. Any clues?
But I guess if it were really important he would have explicitly said so it's probably not.
- Goofaholix
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
I don't know if it was ever recorded.Wind wrote:I thought it wasn't important either until I tried both ways, and it makes a huge difference. So I want to know what the Buddha did.
Most commonly it's eyes closed. Eyes open is usually only encouraged when necessary to prevent sleepiness however you need to be sitting somewhere that doesn't have any visual distraction, which is why those traditions who encourage eyes open encourage sitting facing the wall.
Pronouns (no self / not self)
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.”
― Ajahn Chah
Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Excellent point. Do you know if the non-Buddhist meditators in India during the time of the Buddha practice with eyes closed too?Goofaholix wrote:I don't know if it was ever recorded.Wind wrote:I thought it wasn't important either until I tried both ways, and it makes a huge difference. So I want to know what the Buddha did.
Most commonly it's eyes closed. Eyes open is usually only encouraged when necessary to prevent sleepiness however you need to be sitting somewhere that doesn't have any visual distraction, which is why those traditions who encourage eyes open encourage sitting facing the wall.
- jcsuperstar
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Mahayana from my instructions and from readings tend to do it eyes open
Theravada eyes closed
either one is fine really.
Theravada eyes closed
either one is fine really.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
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Last edited by Thai_Theravada on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Perhaps there is a clue in images of the Buddha? I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods actually. Which do you find most effective?Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation. Most assume the eyes are shut but some even practice with eyes open. It seems to be an important factor to consider. I wonder if the Buddha shuts his eyes or not when he does sitting meditation. Any clues?
P
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
When I meditate with eyes closed, I can focus on my breathing better but my mind tend to wonder more or if I'm a little tired, sometimes I feel I'm drifting into dream land. When I meditate with my eyes open, I find my mind is more focus and more awake and wander less but it is harder to focus on breathing when I'm distracted sometimes by my blinking. Over all I think eyes-closed is better.porpoise wrote:Perhaps there is a clue in images of the Buddha? I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both methods actually. Which do you find most effective?Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation. Most assume the eyes are shut but some even practice with eyes open. It seems to be an important factor to consider. I wonder if the Buddha shuts his eyes or not when he does sitting meditation. Any clues?
P
And it is because a lot of pictures depict the Buddha with eyes slightly open that I am trying it eyes open but it has been harder to do. I'm not sure if those images of the Buddha are accurate so that's why I started this thread to find out.
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Probably for the same reason as he didn't specify exactly how one should sit. The Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta just says, “pallaṅkaṃ ābhujitvā” = having sat cross-legged. What suits one person doesn't suit another. To get hung up on such details misses the point.Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation.
If you're sleepy, then open your eyes. If you're restless, then shut them — or do whatever works for you.
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
Thanks again Venerable. You are right. I will do what works for me.Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Probably for the same reason as he didn't specify exactly how one should sit. The Satipaṭṭhāna Sutta just says, “pallaṅkaṃ ābhujitvā” = having sat cross-legged. What suits one person doesn't suit another. To get hung up on such details misses the point.Wind wrote:I wonder why the Buddha did not give any instruction on what to do with the eyes during sitting meditation.
If you're sleepy, then open your eyes. If you're restless, then shut them — or do whatever works for you.
Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
As a generalisation this is largely true in my experience.jcsuperstar wrote:Mahayana from my instructions and from readings tend to do it eyes open
Theravada eyes closed
either one is fine really.
When I learned Vipassana I was taught to close my eyes.
When I learned Vipasnya I was taught to half close them and look at the ground about four feet ahead.
Both ways are fine.
Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
If it was critically important to enlightenment that one meditate eyes open, then surely the sutras would have mentioned it. Right?
- jcsuperstar
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
basically the reasons i've seen to back both are thus;
eyes closed means less distractions
eyes opened means a safeguard against drowsiness
what are you having problems with? the answer to that question should tell you whether or not to open your eyes, nothing else.
eyes closed means less distractions
eyes opened means a safeguard against drowsiness
what are you having problems with? the answer to that question should tell you whether or not to open your eyes, nothing else.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
- Monkey Mind
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Re: Why were there no instruction on the eyes in meditation?
In her audio book "How to Meditate", Pema Chodron stated that 'Southern" Buddhists (Theravada) meditate with their eyes closed to minimize distractions. Tibetan Buddhists meditate with their eyes open, though more distracting, to symbolize their openness to the world. (Don't shoot the messenger, just repeating what I heard.)
This cleared up a lot for me. I always wondered why at some meditation workshops I was told to keep my eyes closed, and at others eyes open (soft gaze directed at a spot on the floor 18 centimeters in front of me.)
I have a similar story about mudras.
This cleared up a lot for me. I always wondered why at some meditation workshops I was told to keep my eyes closed, and at others eyes open (soft gaze directed at a spot on the floor 18 centimeters in front of me.)
I have a similar story about mudras.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.
Sutta Nipāta 3.710